Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

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AusAnzani
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby AusAnzani » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:05 am

Charles, lets just say the Australian Outboard manufactures got their inspiration from US and UK brands.

Verity for example is very much Muncie Neptune (lower) and Johnson (upper) inspired. Riptide was based on Verity with design changes making it more economical to produce.

Marlin 4hp uses Villier 5F power with a locally manufactured water-cooled cylinder replacing the standard air-cooled unit .

Olympic is very much based on British Seagull. Cromac takes it a step further with what appears to be a modified 102 cylinder. Gearbox components are also similar to the 102 clutched models, albeit house withing a radically changed casing. Crank casings are similar to Olympic, however instead of bronze bearings, it uses 4 roller bearings. The Cromac comprises the same ignition system as the Olympic (Bailey - made in Australia). Interestingly the Seagull 102, Olympic and Cromac are all rated 4hp.

Some Cromac pics

IMG_5194_R.jpg


IMG_5422_R.jpg


IMG_5608_R.jpg


Here's a photo of the Bailey Ignition (sames as Olympic) however from my Aussie made SPEED. Base plate is slightly different ie there were numerous models available.

IMG_6555_R.jpg


All interesting stuff.

Regards,
Spiro
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby Charles uk » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:38 am

The Cromac looks like a 3 piece crank, Seagull didn't advance that far until about 1990!
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby Collector Inspector » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:14 am

I hope you do not mind S. These are some pics of Tiller"s Ignition.

I cleaned and gapped the points only. No cleaning needed.


DSC05592.JPG


07122009677.jpg


07122009676.jpg


And Tiller has no engine number.........

Cheers

BnC
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby AusAnzani » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:44 am

Playing Olympics again today, with emphasis placed in tearing down Hugo's ex Serial No 0106.

All looks to be same as my # 276 with the exception of the lower crank case casting (no stops for tiller) and the cover at the lead side of the gearbox.

Should add Hugo's 106 was also fitted with a Seagull tiller, a likely replacement at some stage prior to Hugo purchasing it. Not correct for my # 276 however but will suffice until a correct tiller is found.

Have to recheck the threads as it dawned on me I was using Whitworth spanners whilst stripping # 276. From pics however it is clear they are different to Seagull. Will confirm.

Hope to measure ring gaps from # 276 in both Olympic and Seagull barrels tomorrow. Wife is not real impressed with the time and money I'm putting in to these things, so I need to make amends lol.

More on Monday as I am also without a computer and cannot resize images to post here.

Regards
Spiro
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby AusAnzani » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:50 am

No problem at all B, all info is good info. In fact I've been able to spot a few things in your photos.

Your Tiller has the same lower crank case housing as my # 276, see the end stops limiting tiller movement to from horizontal to vertical.

Of course the hub of your tiller handle comprises the matching stops. Different from Seagull.

Do you by chance have a spare tiller handle as such. My # 276 came without, and unfortunately Hugo's # 106 was with a Seagull tiller, suitable for his # 106 as there are no stops in the crank case casting.

Regards
Spiro

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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby Collector Inspector » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:34 am

Tiller handle.............hang Dude!

BnC
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby AusAnzani » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:54 am

Collector Inspector wrote:Tiller handle.............hang Dude!

BnC


You're a good lad. Happy to trade also for something you might need ... if you find a spare that is :)

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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby AusAnzani » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:06 am

OK, so here are some more pics. Hopefully all questions (bar one) are answered and I can focus on rebuilding this thing lol

Gearbox cap comparisons. To the right is Hugo's Olympic # 103, very much the same as that on a standard AD 102. To the left is gearbox from my # 276. May be somewhat difficult to see in the photos but instead of being a perfect dome, it projects slightly further and has a sharper leading edge making it more streamlined.

IMG_6899.JPG


Drive shaft coupling and drive shafts are different from that on Seagull 102 models.

IMG_6902_R.jpg


The drive shaft on the Olympic comprises a round tube with bronze inserts with closed ends. Much heavier than the standard.

IMG_6924_R.jpg


IMG_6925_R.jpg
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby AusAnzani » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:16 am

From the previous, it may have been apparent that there were differences in the overall outboard height dimensions. Here you can clearly see the differences in exhaust tube lengths. Also, whilst the exhaust tube on the Olympic is shorter, it is heavier gauge bronze.

Standard AD 102 left, Olympic right.

IMG_6915_R.jpg


This pic shows the differences in the profile of the water pump housing. Note the tapered sides and leading edge profile.

IMG_6903_R.jpg


Could not get a quality shot here, but whilst the engine mounts appear identical, the holes that the crank case studs pass through are located differently. This makes fitting of olympic engines on Seagull tubes (and vice versa) difficult, but not impossible.
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby AusAnzani » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:21 am

Crank on the Olympic appears to be 3 piece construction, welded at the crank lobes. Cant say that i have seen this type of construction before. Quite strange actually.

IMG_6906_R.jpg


IMG_6907_R.jpg


Also, as advised earlier, the piston pins have brass end caps inserted at both ends.

IMG_6908_R.jpg
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby AusAnzani » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:29 am

Conrod castings, same but different again. No attempt has been made to check overall length, or length between centers between the little and big ends.

IMG_6912_R.jpg


IMG_6913_R.jpg


The Olympic appears to have a larger bearing cap, and a smaller lubrication port. Interestingly there was no wire securing the screws on Olympic # 276, but there was on Hugo's # 103.

IMG_6914_R.jpg
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby AusAnzani » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:15 am

All threads confirmed to be UNC.

IMG_6911_R.jpg


The bore in the Olympic is larger definitely diameter. Using rings from the Olympic to compare.

Olympic

IMG_6909_R.jpg


Gap = 0.165" or 4.191mm

Seagull

IMG_6910_R.jpg


Gap = 0.1525" or 3.874mm

The gaps seem quite large to me (normally 2-4 thou per inch diamater for water-cooled engines I would have thought). Not sure if there is a spec available to compare, but I will redo with rings from 103 to see if there is consistency.

The only thing left to do is to map the ports. I've tried various methods but have been unsuccessful. I am therefore looking for tips on how to proceed.

Regards,
Spiro
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby AusAnzani » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:05 am

Hey Bruce, couple qurestions for you please mate.

Are the fuel tank and tiller arm on your "Tiller" Light Blue or Light Green? I am seeing different colors depending on lighting conditions.

Olympic Bruce 3.jpg


DSC05592.JPG


For the record, I have noted a mix of Light Blue and Yellow on the drive shaft from # 103 and am wondering if the Light Blue might be same as that on your Tiller. I need a reference to color match.

IMG_6924_R.jpg


Also, if you could you please confirm whether the crank case assembly, water-pump housing, gearbox and propeller on your Tiller are painted a light silver hammertone, that would be appreciated.

And finally, dimensions for the decals please. I am speculating same widths, different heights (mm).

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Spiro
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby Collector Inspector » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:26 am

S

Braved the red-backs and the smell of mice! I will shut Cello in the back shed overnight with a bowl of water and no dinner. No litter tray either because that will piss her right off........goodby rodents.

OK

Main Tank Sticker is 85 x 57mm.

20190318_144606_HDR[1].jpg


Lubrication sticker is 84 x 32mm

20190318_144536_HDR[1].jpg


I had a good look for an engine number (or any number at all) and nothing.

The cases, gearbox and pump housing have no paint at all. Bare cast aluminium. The gear box and pump housing have been linished but not looking "Polished" sort of deal. The transom clamps have frosted over bronze.

20190318_144700_HDR[1].jpg


The colour is indeed Green under which has the yellow primer we all know so well.

There is the usual red lead primer under black on the barrel..........No sign of any plating.

Please share these pics mate. On Yr Group etc.

Cheers

BnC

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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102

Postby Collector Inspector » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:41 am

The ring gaps..........totally incorrect I am afraid.

Such as those indicates at the very least ring breakage under load.

That is if the poor things actually run.

I suggest revisit?

Cheers

BnC
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