Bio degradable

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woodbutchergraham
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Re: Bio degradable

Post by woodbutchergraham »

Ok you have convinced me that the modern lubricants are for the future better than those of the past. As you can imagine this is totally new area for me, I have always run my Seagulls as instructed and struggle to adjust to the obvious changes that must inevitably come. I’m not an anti environmentalist and agree that to protect our planet we all must make changes. I will be of cause completing my pre holiday strip of my 40+ and we will see if this synthetic oil with bio degrading properties can stand up to two weeks of altitude (2000ft asl), heat and work. 8)
Life is what you make it, and what you make could change your life.
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Waggles
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Re: Bio degradable

Post by Waggles »

Haven't actually used any yet so can't recommend but found these:

http://www.theyachtshop.co.uk/items/boa ... e/list.htm Scroll to bottom
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-6512-motul- ... tc-w3.aspx

Both are TCW3 so should be OK? I note a clue in the second one where it states that to be Bio degradeable it appears 'only' 85% needs to degrade to meet the standard?

Still must be greener than the ordinary stuff?

Now anyone seen any bio degradeable 140 weight gearbox oil?
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atoyot
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Re: Bio degradable

Post by atoyot »

Waggles wrote:....Both are TCW3 so should be OK? I note a clue in the second one where it states that to be Bio degradeable it appears 'only' 85% needs to degrade to meet the standard?

Still must be greener than the ordinary stuff?

Now anyone seen any bio degradeable 140 weight gearbox oil?
First, I think Woodbutchergraham summed it up best the other day, in suggesting that it seems quite alien to consider the oil burning Seagull in the same context as environmental issues. That is, if one is so very concerned about green issues to such a degree, this is as a whole the wrong product line to think of using out in the real world.

So, we've accepted all this and we're going to run our Seagulls. I'll have to read up on that European standard and learn what it means as far as these ratings. 85% degradable in X-period of time has to be better than exists-as-a-surface-film-forever, provided that it lubricates the way we want. And just like autos that have to meet minimum safety specifications yet some are more more crash resistant than others, some lubes have to be better than others even if they meet the TC-W3 standard.

A bio-friendly 140W gear oil? That's a good one. May be straight castor oil? Just be sure to find a source of replacement shafts, pinions and gears for your model first in case it isn't good enough. I retrofitted an oil seal to my output shaft and it hardly leaks at all (out the top I suppose).

Oil, tires, and religion are possibly the most argued topics known and sooner or later, one has to pick a choice and run with it. If you've faith in a brand name in general, such as Shell or Castrol, then one might have to trust it. And again, anything sold today is "probably" 20 times better than what was around 30 years ago, let alone 50 years ago.

Back to Woodbutchergraham's concern, possession of a bio-friendly [more or less] outboard oil at the border of another country might at least show that you care.

-ted
There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all.
- Prof. Peter Drucker
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Collector Inspector
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Re: Bio degradable

Post by Collector Inspector »

ALL of the Above is TOTALLY COOL!

What a great topic eh?

Regards

B
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
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woodbutchergraham
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Re: Bio degradable

Post by woodbutchergraham »

On to my next problem all the bio oils I have seen have a spec sheet stating either 1% or max of 40;1 how do I go on with my 10;1 mix. I think at this stage I need to contact a supplier and ask advice unless you know better ……………. :wink:
All the best Graham
Oh and by the way thank you all for your input :D
Life is what you make it, and what you make could change your life.
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Todd
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Re: Bio degradable

Post by Todd »

atoyot wrote: if one is so very concerned about green issues to such a degree, this is as a whole the wrong product line to think of using out in the real world.

A bio-friendly 140W gear oil? That's a good one.


I comfort myself with the knowledge that in owning and using a Seagull, I'm practicing 'recycling'. Consider the environmental damage created in the manufacture of, for example, of a new 2 1/2hp Honda outboard: mining and smelting of aluminum, the heinous chemicals and processes involved in making plastics and electronics, the fuels burned in transportation of raw and finished products, etc, etc. I have no hard data to prove this, but dirty as they are, I believe I will never run my 'Gulls enough to create an equivalent amount of environmental havoc. As further balm for my conscience, I use synthetic 140wt and tcw-3 which, if not strictly considered to be biodegradable, seem at the least to be kind to the aged works.
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atoyot
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Re: Bio degradable

Post by atoyot »

woodbutchergraham wrote:On to my next problem all the bio oils I have seen have a spec sheet stating either 1% or max of 40;1 how do I go on with my 10;1 mix. I think at this stage I need to contact a supplier and ask advice unless you know better ……………. :wink:
All the best Graham
Oh and by the way thank you all for your input :D

I think 1% is 100:1 and so 40:1 is just a bit oilier than 50:1 (2%). Why would more oil fail to mix properly at 10:1 (or even 25:1 for those with replacement needles or Bing carbs)? More learned people would have to answer that. May be they're afraid more oil than 40:1 won't stay in suspension and will just rise to the top of the tank, but, I'm really grabbing at straws trying to make a wild and abstract guess at what the makers' reasoning might be.

In the interest of science, how about if you take a glass jar and mix up some 10:1 in it, should be easy using the metric system. Let us know if it separates a week from now. Seriously! I'll wager that it'll be fine.

Consider this, though: In the old days, people chiefly took a straight 30W automotive oil and mixed that with gasoline/petrol and that was that - outboard fuel. Talk about fogging for mosquitos! So with that in mind, we return to the theory that "anything" sold today, rated for water-cooled outboards, beats the snot out of what was used when most of the British Seagull engines of the world were built. And yet, so many have lasted through the ages.

Try to worry less! Really. It's so easy to over-analyze with so much information out there, and where everyone & his dog has an opinion. You should be fine with any name-brand oil that has whatever properties you want, such as [partially] biodegradable types - Castrol 2T, Yamalube 2M, Pennzoil Marine (full or partial synthetic), etc.

Happy motoring,

Ted
There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all.
- Prof. Peter Drucker
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atoyot
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Re: Bio degradable

Post by atoyot »

Todd wrote:... but dirty as they are, I believe I will never run my 'Gulls enough to create an equivalent amount of environmental havoc. ...
Being far from the world's expert on any of this, that's more or less my stand as well. There are some who want to be reassured of these truths and to be assured that they won't be sacrificing their iron blocks on the alter of conservation. We owe it to them to show them the raw data and let the conclusions be made. There are options that - hopefully - reduce whatever impact may exist down to a reasonable minimum.

Happy motoring!

-t.a.
There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all.
- Prof. Peter Drucker
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woodbutchergraham
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Re: Bio degradable

Post by woodbutchergraham »

Ted you have convinced me, its time to venture down to the local marina to scout out what they have in stock. I will take your advice and pre mix a small amount at 10:1 and see how it fairs with time. I have even considered an early strip down / rebuild just to try the new fuel out at sea level before trying it at altitude. May consider a trial on the 102 but need to get it running on normal fuel first. As well as sea trials of the new boat (must remember to take camara)

To one and all, I thank you again for your support and knowledge
Life is what you make it, and what you make could change your life.
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Rob Ripley
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Re: Bio degradable

Post by Rob Ripley »

How do we test the 'bio-degradable'? check out my pics in the display (10:1 and 25:1)
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