Removal of dome nut

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websterj
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Location: Florida, USA

Removal of dome nut

Postby websterj » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:50 pm

I picked up a Seagull Silver Century s/n WS681GG3. It is planned for a brother-in-law in Nova Scotia who recently built a Lunenberg Dory - this seemed like the perfect engine for him.

Would like to get it running before giving. Seems to be no spark, so trying to get at the magneto points, but the dome nut is a puzzle to get off.
I've tried whacking it, but flywheel just moves with the whack.
Read all the posts I could find here but not many details other than the whack - seems most difficulties are getting the flywheel off, which hopefully, I may not have to do. One fellow (massimo) talked about dome nut difficulties, but didn't see what actually made it come off.
First the dome nut.

I'm a bit worried about destroying something so am moving carefully.
If I can get a chain wrench around the flywheel to keep it from rotating, will it possibly damage the flywheel, or is quite robust at the top (closest to the dome nut).

I can certainly get the chain around the rope pulley, but afraid since it is plastic, will break it.

Or maybe wedge something up under the flywheel.

Torching/heating the nut seems a bad idea because of the plastic pulley maybe melting.

Thanks,

Jim (Florida, USA)

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skyetoyman
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Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby skyetoyman » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:53 pm

a spanner or a socket -- and just give it a good wack with a hammer anti clockwise . it does not matter that the flywheel moves -- it will release it - eventually
LLS c 1961 on a crescent 42 boat c 1980 + wspcl c 1976 + 102 SD8561 c 1944 + 102 ACR 1948

Horsley-Anarak
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Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby Horsley-Anarak » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:21 pm

All you need to do is stop the flywheel from rotating.
I find that a rachet strap or a piece of rope used as a Spanish Windlass will stop the flywheel moving without damaging it.

Two pairs of hands can help, and give the spanner a tap with a hammer. If you have a 1/2" drive "windy gun" that can work.

I have never found one that was hard to remove, If this is rusted solid it may not bode well for the rest of the rebuild.

Can you post some pictures? "We all like Pictures" :wink:

H-A

electrosys
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Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby electrosys » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:36 pm

I find a ring spanner is best - holding the edge of the flywheel in the cup of my left hand, and giving the ring spanner a sharp smack with a club hammer held in my right hand - that usually does the biz, if not on the first stroke, then certainly by the second.

Sure, the flywheel tends to turn in the hand - but it's more of an inertia thing - the impact from the hammer having an effect on the nut, before the flywheel gains any momentum ...

websterj
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:23 pm
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby websterj » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:19 am

OK. Got the dome nut off. Whacked it a few times with the flywheel not being held and it didn't work.
So rigged up my chain visegrips - had to improvise a bit to get it to reach - and one whack with strong right hand whilst holding the visegrip with weak left hand and it was loose.
Didn't seem so rusty after getting it off.
I need to clean the pitting off the flywheel - looks like it has never been off.
Wow.... awful dark thru those two little hoes in the flywheel.
Got a feeling the next project is to get the flywheel off in order to access the magneto easily.
Will read thru these forums some more before that however.

I put some pics of the engine here: http://www.box.com/s/7p0y54spu1ko6dohrhzr

Thanks a bunch for help. I be back.

Jim

Horsley-Anarak
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Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby Horsley-Anarak » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:54 am

Does not look that bad.

I would give it a good squirt of light oil where the flywheel and crank join, even if you are not taking it apart now.

Rusty fly.jpg


H-A
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charlesp
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Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby charlesp » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:05 am

And whatever you do,

DO NOT USE A FLYWHEEL PULLER

If you do it will destroy your flywheel. Even if you have a mate who mends engines for a living and says you can use one - don't.

There's a wealth of good advice about the right method here on this forum.

Vic
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Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby Vic » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:57 pm

charlesp wrote:And whatever you do,

DO NOT USE A FLYWHEEL PULLER

If you do it will destroy your flywheel. Even if you have a mate who mends engines for a living and says you can use one - don't.

There's a wealth of good advice about the right method here on this forum.

And the correct method is described on the main website. See:- http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/faq/flywheel.htm

websterj
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Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby websterj » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:40 pm

Hi again from sunshiny Flordia.

Thanks for all replies and suggestions.

Trying to figure out why no spark and here's what I've done.

1. Magneto is magnetized.
This seems like a good thing.

2. Continuity from anywhere (including engine block, points) to tip of sparkplug wire (or to plug itself) - NONE.
Bad. No way to get spark, eh? (my wife is Canadian, hence the "eh?")

3, Continuity from either OPEN points to engine block - Yes - used a really tiny wire to make sure I touched only one of the points.
Bad thing to me and also according to Fluke site about testing magnetos.

The plug wire is attached to a little black thing under the magneto plate - but no way to tell where the break is.
I guess I will have to get the flywheel off to go much further. Need to get someone to help out with that. Read all the posts on it.

Am I correct in my assumptions re the continuity? Just seems weird, in one case there is a short, but in the other there is a break.
Make sense?

Thanks,

Jim

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charlesp
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Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby charlesp » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:32 pm

Have you cleaned and gapped the points properly?

websterj
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Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby websterj » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:48 pm

Tried cleaning them with some emery paper - kinda difficult to get in there - but gonna try again.
Didn't try to re-gap them yet - it actually seems pretty wide so needs it.

Seems the symptoms I see wouldn't be caused by a too wide gap - like no continuity at plug end from either point, but yes continuity on engine block from either point.
Can a dirty point or too wide points cause that symptom???
Just one step at a time and slow for me.

Thanks,

Jim

websterj
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:23 pm
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby websterj » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:24 pm

Hello again.

An update - been slow going on this engine.

I got the flywheel off - ended up supporting from a tree from the clamps with rope as a safety to keep it from hitting the ground - not necessary really if I had thought about it - can't hit the ground with nut still on.

Anyway - then tied ropes thru flywheel apertures to the tree, got a neighbor to hit the nut while I held the flywheel - took a couple good whacks but it is now off.
Also made a mark on flywheel and bottom plate so can line it up if and when reinstalling it.

I say when because here is my problem now.
As I previously said, before removal of flywheel, there seemed to be a short between the points - even when open.

So, removed the points from the plate, held them up so touching absolutely nothing and there is continuity between point set and the plate.
Seems to me this is bad and indicates a short inside that "black thing" which I assume contains the coils.

Is all lost or is there more inside the black thing. Removed the two nuts but it doesn't want to easily come off.
Is there a trick to getting it off - like maybe where the plug wire connects to it.

Thanks guys for any help on this thing - hoping it doesn't become a parts engine.

Jim

Keith.P
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Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby Keith.P » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:50 pm

Don't worry about the black thing, (coil) just yet.
You don't have to worry about lining the flywheel up, that's what the key way is for.
If you have a problem with the points, get them working right first, so you can try the coil out.
If you have no spark, then you can start replacing parts.
Also, if connected, disconnect wire to points, then check points for continuity, this type of coil has a built-in condenser.
Hanging the motor from a tree, never tried that one.

websterj
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Location: Florida, USA

Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby websterj » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:16 pm

Ummmm... I am confused a bit by you saying get the points working right first. That was the last thing I tried, cleaned and gapped them but no fire from the plug (also tried a different, new plug - now it could be that the wire from the plug to the coil (condenser, is there one?) is bad, which I guess is what I am trying to figure out.

My understanding is- and it seems to correlate to the Fluke guide below - that one side of the points is grounded, the other goes thru the coil, which is also eventually grounded, but with a high resistance.
But the resistance should not be 0, should it - seems the only way for that to be is a short somewhere between the points and the base plate, but wait, maybe that's OK. Is it?

Thanks again,

Jim


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Keith.P
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Re: Removal of dome nut

Postby Keith.P » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:42 pm

Have a read of this, it may help http://www.saving-old-seagulls.ww.savin ... f=2&t=1832


Continuity between point set and the plate?


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