Little Model Forty F (1949/50)

[Oyster 49]

John has had decals remade for the FV and FVP. Set off a refurbished tank nicely. I'm surprised there is not more interest in restoring these models. I like them A finished tank comes out like this:

Once the SJM is finished I have a FVP that just needs a light clean up, along with an oval tank refurb. I'll do that one next

[Gannet]

Oyster,
Thanks for stating that so clearly. A great help to me.
There are indeed differences (F to FV) in the cylinder block and head. Both are different castings.
Quickly measuring both F and FV produced the following:-
Both engines are assembled , so dims are approx, but shows the major differences. F dims recorded first.
The transom bracket is thinner casting as well as a smaller distance between the clamping screws.

Carburettor inlet stub I/D 0.375 FV not measured
Head studs ¼ BSF 5/16 BSF
Head studs centres horiz. 1.8 2.1
Cylinder block height 2.90 3.05
Cylinder block width 2.7 & 3.2 3.0/3.5
Cylinder block length 2.82 2.92
Cylinder head width 3.36 3.59
Cylinder head height 2.9 3.1

Transom bracket clamp centres 2.35 3.15
Tank/outboard support spigot length 1.3 1.5
Different magneto base casting - -
3 bladed prop. Dia and chord (?) smaller - -

Hope this is helpful

Jeremy

[Niander101]

Very nice Oyster

[Oyster 49]

How about some good photos of this elusive model F? We like photos here

[Gannet]

I have taken some photos of F201 in the 'as received' condition, except for removal of the carburettor and the tiller.

The system didn't seem to allow me to load anymore.
I hope you will admire the lovely paint finish!!
Look forward to comments.
Jeremy

[Niander101]

wHAT CARB WAS ON IT VILLIERS?

[Oyster 49]

Smaller diameter rope pull as well. Getting all that black paint off will be fun!

[Niander101]

Yes paint stripper but it will have protected whats underneath

[Gannet]

It came with an incorrect Villiers carb.

Most of the paint is now off (except for the tubes - that can wait until I take the bottom end off). Yes, the paint has provided good protection.
It doesn't look as if it has been fiddled with, everthing seems to me to be just so to my amateur eyes.
Do you think that the smaller dia pulley is correct?
I was surprised at the thinner and smaller transom bracket. The plating is as the FV and is in good order.
It produces a nice big fat spark on the D16 plug that came with it.
With plenty of oil in the cylinder (that might mask problems) it produces 170psi compression.
I suspect the biggest problem will be water circulation. The smaller block is not going to help matters.

Photo of the bottom end, which has been stripped as Allen socket headed cap screws have been fitted.
Oyster,
Is the short spindle throttle lever an Amal part? Or should this F have a long spindle throttle lever like the FVs?

Jeremy

[Charles uk]

Check your compression gauge, that sounds extremely high, 70 lbs is what I'd expect on a very good one.

What do the other owners get, don't get worried if your's differs a lot, compression gauges are not very exact or consistant.

[1650bullet]

Check your compression gauge, that sounds extremely high, 70 lbs is what I'd expect on a very good one.

What do the other owners get, don't get worried if your's differs a lot, compression gauges are not very exact or consistant.

He injected oil in the cyl first. So thats why its probably so high.

[Collector Inspector]

You really have something VERY special there G!

B

[Oyster 49]

Yes, a very special engine. Actually quite possibly the rarest seagull, as this one is only the second known to exist! (However there may be more hidden away in sheds) So I think you need to take extreme care, plenty of advice around here if you need it. Keep the hammers, crowbars and chisels well away! Can you post a picture of the transom bracket, and the throttle lever that came with the carb?

If you need any help let me know, I've stripped a few of these now. The primary weakness is that the cylinder studs go through the water jacket, and are usually mild steel, screwed into an aluminum crankcase. Add in a nice dose of salt water, and the whole thing starts to corrode, usually the studs into the crankcase are the worst. Engines run in fresh water only fare a lot better.

The throttle lever on one of these is normally a early villiers lever like this FV, I have a spare if you need one. Note the larger diameter rope pulley fitted to the FV.

The pictures on the SOS website of the early little 40 engines show the same amal lever as fitted to SD and early post war 102s. The same photos show the small diameter rope pulley you have fitted, which was also fitted to early post war 102s.

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/i_ ... 0%20p3.jpg

So you have the basis of a good project, and a rare engine. Next job is to find a suitable carb. I would buy an anzani just for the carb!

[Collector Inspector]

What Oyster said

I suggest take the paint off everything and break it down in to manageable sections. No need for fancy footwork even in taking the head off at this stage........never know everything may well be OK as it has survived thus far in one piece?

Do some basic ignition and gearbox work while leaving the powerhead till later.

Rare thing absolutely so some attention to detail is advised.

PM me and oyster anytime for some thoughts on how you progress and what you want to do, by all means continue with this post for others to comment and help but , sadly, you may be advised well to check your thoughts and actions for an Old Dear such as this.

Any time, just PM your details..........

Lucky Man!

B

[Oyster 49]

Yes, very good advice from CI. Extreme care and thought, as we are dealing with almost a one -off engine.