Dating a seagull by sight

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1charan
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Dating a seagull by sight

Post by 1charan »

Hi All,

Do any of you know when British Seagull changed the following???

- flat horizontal exhaust to round exhaust
- coolie hat to flat hat
- "in the world' to 'for the world'
- round tiller stub to not round tiller stub
- tiller wingnut to normal nut
- round block to square block

In jerseyman's photograph download/file.php?id=6292&mode=view
I noticed one Seagull with a round exhaust instead of a flat one. This got me started.

Ta,

Charan
SJP11446LL parts only, TC52234L unrestored, THC67581L unrestored, FP1986JJ4 running, GF2355EE7 running,TC63272 work in progress, AD52014 unrestored, sEEgull work in progress.
Horsley-Anarak
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Re: Dating a seagull by sight

Post by Horsley-Anarak »

This is a good place to start, lots of information here.

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/i_ ... eagull.htm

H-A
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JERSEYMAN
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Re: Dating a seagull by sight

Post by JERSEYMAN »

Just got to say that in that photo, the motor in question with the round sub ejector exhaust has the wrong water pump housing, it should be a straight out back exhaust as well as a steel tank with a central cap.

After 75 odd years some non original parts no doubt get fitted :|
Keith.P
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Re: Dating a seagull by sight

Post by Keith.P »

It also depends what model seagull you are looking at, I saw a AC that sold the other day for good money on that auction site, listed as 1930's ,in the description it was also listed as 1940's, but it was a ACR, so had a later crank, tank cap, prop and gearbox, the exhaust was right and some other parts, so it did look like an old motor, but only some of it was 1940's and the rest replaced by Seagull, so could be looked at as a genuine motor or a bitza.
Normally if its got a wipac flywheel its to new to bother with,
Newer style just by looking at it has the plate holding the HT on rather than the wire, the plug itself, one slot vintage, two slots old, ears later wipac type.

Marston's are very easy to spot, you just look at the price tag. :lol:
headdownarseup
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Re: Dating a seagull by sight

Post by headdownarseup »

or get to know just one model in particular and follow that.
you'll soon know whats old or not. have a look on the main sos site at some of the old black and white photos and advertising.
loads of nostalgia on there.
try and learn some of the serial numbers as well as this alone will give you some idea of what you're looking at with regards to age.

jon
1charan
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Re: Dating a seagull by sight

Post by 1charan »

Thanks for the replies.

- my remark about the 'wrong' exhaust on the Marston was not critique.
- I have read just about everything from the main site
- My question was about dating a Seagull from pictures on ebay and such, thus without knowing the serial number

So I'll try again;
In which year did they change from flat horizontal exhaust to the oval exhaust?
Same for the coolie hat?

And the other questions of course.

I would appreciate your input.

Thanks,

Charan
SJP11446LL parts only, TC52234L unrestored, THC67581L unrestored, FP1986JJ4 running, GF2355EE7 running,TC63272 work in progress, AD52014 unrestored, sEEgull work in progress.
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Jan
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Re: Dating a seagull by sight

Post by Jan »

Regarding my collection I think:

Flat to round exhaust flange around 1948-49.

Coolie hat ignition to the flat Villiers flywheel around 1946-47.

After the coolie hat Villiers ignition they fitted a different type of Villiers ignition for a few years. Not a MK1 Villiers ignition but a sort of pre MK1 with some early internal parts and baseplate. I call it the Villiers MK1/2.

Jan
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Collector Inspector
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Re: Dating a seagull by sight

Post by Collector Inspector »

By "Sight"

Kinda works well for me.

I tend not to comment on pics and the Bay adverts.

I know something but not everything by "Visual" for any of them of course. There are bitsas well meaning and evolved over time due to an Old Dear being repaired along the way. That would be history well meaning and verifiable in a listing.

Then there are the disasters of description of course.....................well we all come across them Aye?

Best to just do "Care Not" when they get out of hand.

Sight is very important and should be open for discussion as long as .................relevant.......without pissing off any seller or owner.

B
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
headdownarseup
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Re: Dating a seagull by sight

Post by headdownarseup »

for me, half the fun is buying something that on appearence looks "old", but when you get it home and start working on it, you find that its already been "got at" by somebody over the years. then the fun comes in trying to track down the "right/correct" parts to rectify someone else's wrongs.
lots of it going on with seagulls of all ages.
sometimes its what previous owners would call a running repair?

all depends on how authentic you want your seagull to be.
sometimes very difficult to date something just by visual alone, serial number will help as will knowledge of the motor in question.
research lots of old photos and advertising, that's what i do? (look carefully, you can sometimes see dates that the photos/adverts were first published)
jon
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JERSEYMAN
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Re: Dating a seagull by sight

Post by JERSEYMAN »

The problem I found with trying to date motors using adverts is the seagull used the same photo in several ads over several years, probably trying to save money, I am now just looking at a 1948 dated advert which has a seagull with a coolie hat type ignition and a trumpet inlet, by 1948 neither of these were fitted.

Nothing is as it seems with seagull, they just seem to use what they have at hand at the time.
headdownarseup
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Re: Dating a seagull by sight

Post by headdownarseup »

true

but it should still give you a reasonable dating era to work from within 5 years or so.
much more difficult with motors from the 40's up to mid 50's.
after that most models got a bit samey till the mid 60's.

as the original question was about dating by sight, its more about recognising the detail changes or the little things that often get missed.
more often than not, this will come from experience and looking through loads of photos and videos.
concentrate on one particular range of motor and go from there. learn as much as you can from it and others.
i really like the model 102 and at the moment have 5 of them (soon to be 6) but there is a vast difference between the early ones , the middle ones, and the late ones.
its the little things like throttle levers, gear levers etc that can be difficult to put a date on especially as most parts can and often do end up getting swapped about all over the place?

if in doubt, ask. there's bound to be someone on the forum that will know something that "we" dont!
i'm finding out loads of stuff all the time on here.
just when you thought you'd seen it all before, something else crops up.

jon
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Re: Dating a seagull by sight

Post by Collector Inspector »

"just when you thought you'd seen it all before, something else crops up.

jon"

YEP!

Gulls are like that.

Bloody things have been around a long time.

Interest is in the "hunting through boxes and asking about BITS"

Just to get the Old Dear Correct. Well as about as Correct as you can. Exported to the world using whatever parts Bin stock left over from God Knows When previously. It is like Lotto?

I have MANY outboards the world over but A Gull in hand can be the most interesting/frustrating of them all mostly. Parts exchange is a good thing from looking at it just to get a Runner........Then you have the little gems of Upgrades..................

Keeps me interested up to now and into the future as well I am sure.

Bless Them Aye!

Sometimes a Gull purchased at random becomes an obsession as to "How It Was"

I have an eye open for one at the moment. It is different because I do not have that particular version of a "Model Year". It looks completely unmolested to my experience engine number and dating as a basic start. Then it may well get right out there when a spanner is applied.

B
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
headdownarseup
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Re: Dating a seagull by sight

Post by headdownarseup »

absolutely BRUCE
you and me both, the fun is in the hunt, even if its just one little piece you've been looking for ages.

BLOODY THINGS! aye

jon
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