Saving Old Seagulls

I haven't seen that tank with the pair of short brass rest before. What is the correct terminology for them?

Edit: Oh, just checked previous pages of this thread... a canted tank hence the difference.

Very smart Stelios! Well done.
I guess it is FV19309, unless you have another one?
Jon has been encouraging me and showing me how to paint tanks. He has also suggested that I get a gold pen to repair the decal. Did you use a pen or did you use a brush?
By the way, has FV19309 got a Dover grip?
Jeremy

Hi Jeremy, I used thin brush. Serial is FV 19309 and I am missing the Dover grip.

How many hairs on the brush!

AJ

Five

How long do you brush the hair?

I've had some pretty good results in the past with a fine tipped paint pen, the sort you can get from an art/hobby shop.
I use them on the ignition covers to re-apply the paint into the writing "The best outboard motor in/for the world" and the direction arrow.

As for tanks, a lot depends on how good or bad the condition is to start with. If the tank is dented i'll completely strip all the paint off and start again. When it's all done, a new decal (closest match possible) finishes things off with plenty AND I DO MEAN PLENTY of lacquer. (take note Jeremy)


I'm a little concerned that the black paint is not a very good match, although it may look completely diferent when its been lacquered.

I wonder if H-A would like to upload some pics of a Marston tank with some before and after shots!
I'd certainly like to see how it's done.

jon

"I wonder if H-A would like to upload some pics of a Marston tank with some before and after shots!
I'd certainly like to see how it's done."

Yes no problem.
H-A

P.S. almost forgot here is the other one.

Nice pics H-A thanks

Not to be too critical here (and i know first hand how difficult it is at getting this looking right) pics 1&2 look to be the same tank with various parts of the black touched up along with the gold (nice job) has it been covered with lacquer yet?
Pic 3 looks to be a different tank with a new decal fitted (you can clearly see the outline of the waterslide transfer) but if you're brave enough more lacquer will eventually cover everything so you barely notice any "step" around the edges. (is this a reproduction transfer?)
Pics 4&5 look to be the same tank (a work in progress possibly) again nicely done.

Question for those that might know.
The lacquer/varnish that was on these older tanks, is it a satin finish or gloss finish?

Last saturday i spent with Jeremy working on an FVP tank (amongst other things,lots of chatting and parts swapping and drinking tea).
Similar problems,not enough paint applied initially,transfer had been applied a little while ago and left to fully dry for a couple of months.
When applying the lacquer it became clear early on that the tank was going to need quite a bit of covering with the stuff!
Air bubbles under the transfer as well which needed releasing before anything else was done. I think it looks good now (even if i wasn't expecting to do any spraying)
Perhaps Jeremy you could upload a few pics of the tank in question so you can all see!

Practice makes perfect. (difficult i know but it can make or break a restoration) especially if you've gone to great lengths to make sure that everything else on the motor is just right.

You'll see what i mean if you blow up the 2 pics below. (ignore the tank straps, i know they're wrong) This is a 102 i restored about 3 years ago now. Look closely and you can see bubbles under the transfer (very annoying) but what i was getting at was the edges of the transfer are barely visible (no "step") all that is is 5-6 coats of lacquer, the more you put on, the better the coverage will be.
It all comes down to the 6 P's.
Perfect Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Presentation. (but that doesn't mean i'm perfect at anything)

Sorry Stelios for hijacking your post but i hope you can see how difficult it can be to "touch up" an old transfer and still have it looking really good.
If there is a good alternative available i would opt for a replacement (if it is a very good copy) rather than trying to cover over old paint not to mention what lies underneath the old paint? (rust and corrosion which could cause further problems later on) not that big a problem with brass tanks, but steel tanks something different entirely!

jon

headdownarseup wrote:Nice pics H-A thanks


Pic 3 looks to be a different tank with a new decal fitted (you can clearly see the outline of the waterslide transfer) but if you're brave enough more lacquer will eventually cover everything so you barely notice any "step" around the edges. (is this a reproduction transfer?)
Pics 4&5 look to be the same tank (a work in progress possibly) again nicely done.

Question for those that might know.
The lacquer/varnish that was on these older tanks, is it a satin finish or gloss finish?

That tank pic 3 is the finished tank pic 1 as bought, the outline is the edge of the original paint, I sandblasted round the restored transfer.
There are no reproduction transfers for these engines as far as I am aware, the original artwork would have been hand painted in the early thirties, then reduced photographically to make the screen for printing. Some of the letters if studied closely are slightly different, there were computer graphics in those days.
The original transfers were not covered with lacquer, that is why so few survive.

The tanks were high gloss black, ICI bought Sunbeam for their paint technology I believe.

H-A

If the tanks were not covered with lacquer, why not varnish? (good for wooden boats so why not use it on a fuel tank)
I know that after a while the varnish will wear away, but something is better than nothing! (right)

Other parts on the motor must surely have been covered in varnish at some point (crankcases for certain on younger models so why not Marstons?) and why not tanks!
It seems daft to me that BS (or rather Marston Seagull as it was in those days) would go to all that trouble of hand painting the "artwork" and not protect it somehow.
When you say reproduced, was it by silk screen printing or some other method?

jon

As you say, patience is the key. Lots of rubbing down before primer, than quite often rubbing most of the primer off between coats. Again flat back between colour coats. I have found Halfords petrol resistant lacquer to be reasonable, only 10 mins between coats, so you can build up the coats quickly. After that I leave for at least 3 weeks to harden, then a light t-cut and then wax polish.

On one occasion the decals got thrown out as they split, a good tip is to rub down the gloss finish with 2000 grit wet and dry before applying the decal and lacquer. This allows the decal to slide around more easily.

This FV tank turned out very well, I even designed and got the decals made, which John now stocks.

headdownarseup wrote: It seems daft to me Marston Seagull would go to all that trouble of hand painting the "artwork" and not protect it somehow. jon

The "artwork" is the original facsimile, that would have been created by the graphic artist, that had been commissioned by Marston Seagull.

It would have been painted or drawn, then if it met with the approval of those in charge, it would have been converted into screen print for the transfer production.

H-A

Rub between coats, yes and no.
I'd concentrate more on getting the coverage of the paint onto the tank before any decal is applied. The last coat before the decal is applied is where i'd flat back to take the shine off so that the decal has got something to stick to and is easier to slide around.Then when the decal is applied and you're happy with it's placement, leave it alone to dry for a month or two. AND DONT TOUCH IT! (airing cupboard works well wrapped up in an old pillow case for protection if you can swipe one from the missus without her knowing)
Invariably there will be air bubbles under the decal as it's dried, prick out with a pin before you do anything else. Degrease the tank with some detergent (diluted washing up liquid in a spray bottle and use soft cotton wool to wash it with. Dry with lint free cloth and DONT TOUCH IT with your bare hands as you'll transfer grease from your fingertips onto the paint you want to spray (so defeats the object) but above all else treat it very very gently as the decal is easily damaged at this stage and dont rub too hard when you wash it down. Gently does it!

The one thing that drives me insane with this job (and lets face it it's bound to happen) you make absolutely sure that everything is spick and span and spotlessly clean, you then apply the decal and it looks great, BUT THEN........ how the hell did that little hair or bit of fluff get there!!! AAARRRGGGHHH (too late now because the decal is on)
Bugger! and

I've done a few like this and got away with putting more lacquer over the top to cover over the mistake. (it can take more than you think sometimes)
More lacquer can often cover up a sub-standard paint job to make it look good! (waiting to see if Jeremy will upload pics of FV tank i sprayed over the weekend which might help to explain things) not that i'm saying Jeremy is rubbish at painting or anything!

Dont get me wrong, each to their own when it comes to restoration.

jon

Patients are in the hospitals not me Jon!!!!