golden oldie 102

[headdownarseup]

hi CHARLES P
the plot thickens!
i take on board everything you say, after all you are one of the people that have extensively researched these things before.
and why should i have any reason to doubt you!

so, if what i've tried to describe with this motor is perhaps lacking in some truth, can we at least try and put some things to bed with this. i'm only trying to make this one right after all.

when was the "sub ejector" pump housing introduced? (what year)
what gearbox would go with the "sub ejector" housing? (nippled or non nippled and presumably with holes not slots on the water inlet)
what is the correct prop for a 1947 AC?

and then there's the question of the mount
bent thumbscrews (as per SD) or the usual "T" handle jobbies.
bronze or aluminium "C CLAMPS"

it goes on and on

eventually one of us will get to the bottom of this i'm sure



does anybody else think that this is a "bitsa"?
i'd very much like to hear your views on this.

i have another AC under wraps just like this about 300 or so earlier in the serial number but with a very interesting provenance. (been in the same family since 1947 until i got hold of it a few weeks ago)
and its got EXACTLY the same parts except it has the correct inlet cowl, and apparently it never saw the BS works in poole after it was bought. the gent i bought it from said his father bought it new in 1947 and used it up till the early 70's. sadly the old boy is long gone so i can't varify anything other than his father was an experienced mechanic and looked after it fairly well until he moved away from the coast and sold his boat, whereupon the son had it in his garage where it lay undisturbed in a canvas bag for nearly 40 years. suffice to say its seized now from lack of use!


i'm still not sure it's a "bitsa"
but as i say, we can be wrong sometimes can't we!

jon

[Horsley-Anarak]

i'm still not sure it's a "bitsa"
but as i say, we can be wrong sometimes can't we!

There are a few later additions, Jans one is what I would expect (not sure on tank).

I have AC 6367 with same gearbox and pump housing.

Your gearbox looks ok to me. I have a later AC with a bowtie, SD type could well be correct for yours.

You would need to look at detailed pictures of lots more to be sure.

Has the carb got the unused lug on the side of the body, the earlier ones did not.

H-A

[headdownarseup]

JAN
your AC is almost the same as the "old advert" i was trying to describe.
and its got the flange type baseplate!
AND an SD throttle lever, EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE ADVERT!

slight difference in the tank, yours has a screw top cap, and mine has a bayonet cap

what type of tank mounts are on yours? brass or cast aluminium?
but EVERYTHING ELSE is the same!

these early 102's cant possibly be "bitsa's" can they?
too much coincidence in the same parts particularly with the blocks (hex head core plugs not slotted)

and thats just 3 we know of so far (2 of mine and 1 of JAN's) there will be others out there

i know JERSEYMAN has an old C in his collection which is perhaps 1 or 2 years earlier than what we're talking about here!
there has to be a certain number of "common parts" fitted to 102's of this age.

we need to know what they are before moving on.
gearboxes and props
engine blocks (bearing in mind these could easily have been swapped in the past during a rebuild)
mountings get broken and swapped?
engines fall over, so its perfectly possible that inlet cowls get swapped for the current model (with a choke)
and this is where it all starts to get out of hand, bits get swapped all over the place leading to what we think is a "bitsa"
when actually its been repaired with the later parts (and possibly by previous owners) and not BS.

and lastly, yes i'd also like to know what the A stands for in AC/AD?

jon

[headdownarseup]

H-A

AC3392 wears the same carb as this (except for the inlet cowl)
its got the removable screw which locates the throttle slide (i take these as being early) later ones had a different pressed in lug (i take these as being later)
right or wrong?

[Horsley-Anarak]

That is the older style without the unused lug.

This is the later one with the extra lug.

H-A

[Charles uk]

Jon post a link to the ad.

[headdownarseup]

so what are we saying is wrong so far?

magneto
thumb throttle
the complete mounting or just the clamps?
plug cap (not sure)
inlet cowl (we know already)
tilt hook/bracket (stainless steel one fitted at the moment but i think should be cast aluminium)
fuel tank and cap (not sure)


jon

[Horsley-Anarak]

Could be this one



Can the article be dated?

H-A

[headdownarseup]

bear with me, technology was never my strong point!

to find the advert i'm talking about go to " I.D YOUR BRITISH SEAGULL" in the main site, go to 102
scroll down about 6 or 7 pics and you'll see a PLUS MODEL with its packing case!
there are 2 pictures, the one i've concentrated on is the one on the right (make sense?)

jon

[Collector Inspector]

Nice topic

Nice Gull bits



B

[Horsley-Anarak]

bear with me, technology was never my strong point!

to find the advert i'm talking about go to " I.D YOUR BRITISH SEAGULL" in the main site, go to 102
scroll down about 6 or 7 pics and you'll see a PLUS MODEL with its packing case!
there are 2 pictures, the one i've concentrated on is the one on the right (make sense?)

jon

[headdownarseup]

that's the one
or if you like, go back to D9666 restoration on general topics it'll be on ther as well (a bit easier to get into to see what i mean)

jon

[Horsley-Anarak]

that's the one
or if you like, go back to D9666 restoration on general topics it'll be on ther as well (a bit easier to get into to see what i mean)

jon

Sorry here is a more user friendly option.

Bowtie prop, that is a strange braided fuel line.

I would put this later than your AC.

H-A

[headdownarseup]

correct H-A

but speaking to CHARLES last night, dont beleive everything you see in these adverts?
BS sometimes being "creative" in their art department when it comes to advertising!

however, from this we can at least get the gist of what's going on. its a model AC after all, so almost the same as what i have with AC3392
aside from the obvious later parts that are currently fitted to it, its not far off wouldn't you say. (not entirely sure about the tank)
but everything else i agree with i.e "c clamps", thumb throttle, magneto, tilt bracket and inlet cowl.
AND its definitely 100% got the hex head core plugs! (still trying to figure out whether slotted type were earlier or later, possibly even the same time. cylinders could have been made from whoever at the time and the breif was to fit removable core plugs, some chose to put hex head, some went with slotted type) all depended on what you got at the time and from which supplier. (this is where charles steps in) hopefully


starting to get somewhere with this now!

jon

[headdownarseup]

one of my original questions was
when was the "sub ejector" pump housing intrduced (what year)
and (according to CHARLES) the bow tie prop was introduced at the same time (what year)

if we can clarify this, then we can either agree (or not) that the SD gearbox and prop is correct for pre 1950's 102's (plus models being different again)
one thing at a time and we'll get there!

jon