Gearbox Oils

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Adrian Dale
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Gearbox Oils

Post by Adrian Dale »

The subject of gear oil was raised by "Croweater" John in the excellent topic or the Murray river trip. John Related the problem with the Penrite Oils and the fact that they do not emulsify.

Prior to reading this I had changed over to the Penrite 140 gear oil like John believing it to be ideal for the task. The result was of course the opposite and on a 4 hour non stop run the oil broke down to a thick non lubricating sludge which could not be drained from the box, resulting in the necessity of stripping the gear box to clean it out. On inspection it was noted that there was significant wear on the pinion gear and pinion top bearing.

I have since trolled the oil suppliers for a correct replacement. Charles recomends a straight SAE type. I have not been able to locate a 140 wt oil of this type here in Australia, the best I can get is a 90/140 wt. But given the cool running gearbox on a gull the 90/140 will never reach the 140 wt which requires a running temperature of close to 100"C

My intention is to do an escorted round Bruny endurance run estimated non stop run time of 16 hours. So the question is, what oils are available in Australia? I believe any run time with the synthetic Penrite over 3 to 4 Hours will cause significant gear box wear. I have since drained and flushed all my engine gearboxes, which I recommend anyone using the Penrite oil do.

AJ
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Collector Inspector
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by Collector Inspector »

Adrian

16 hours is a long time continuous running and I imagine that if you keep filling the tank a nicely tuned Gull will just keep on going and going all being normal. Not a problem with that at all.

A rough estimate that you will do a minimum of 16 tank replenishment.

Here is the rub in that after two tanks let us reckon 2 hours (Fresh Water Donnelly River from beach to boat ramp and back) I change the oil. Maybe a return trip of a further hour then oil change is 100% no question.....or........I am too pissed to remember earlier :oops:

No oil on the planet can be continually "Washed Out" of a gear case and be expected to be........remaining as anything remotely lubricative (is that a real word).

Gull box just lets in water.

If the gearbox had mechanical seals like others no water would get in period to emulsify. A sealed case with milk in it gets a set of seals to stop destruction.

It is the constant flushing with water.

There is a way to refill the tank while under way of course.

What you need to do is devise a similar simple system to induce fresh oil into the case thus flushing the nasty out as you rattle on into the sunset and hopefully not a looming storm front on the horizon.

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I would imagine something like pumped into the bottom of the case relieved from the top of the case and into a "Catch Bucket"....................

I reckon this is fodder for the Gull Minded

Good Topic and

Regards
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Charles uk
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by Charles uk »

I think that is the reason why Seagull, sell replacement pinion bearings, prop shaft bearings & prop shafts.

It must be to replace components that are worn out.

So if a gear box full of oil is emptying itself, in an hour, it's a reasonable assumption that it's best before date was some years ago.

If your car had canvas showing through on one of the front tyres, would you paint it black with a spray can & then set off on your trip to Darwin?

Where as your 16 hour trip in the Tasman , only half of which is through Storm bay, around Bruny island where 75% of the coastline is very senic but not at all suitable for an unpowered landing on anything other than a perfect day, not really the place for a Seagull gearbox on it's last legs.

I'd like to come with you if I could use my own motor, any tuna around there?
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by Collector Inspector »

Salmon.

Stuff Tuna.

B
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chris
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by chris »

I use the penrite transoil T140 a a straight mineral oil and don't seem to have any problems with it, I read that you use synthetic gear box oil from penrite
Adrian Dale
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by Adrian Dale »

I am going with an escort vessel which will carry a couple of spare engines. Re the weather, the southern fronts are very well forecast and are quite predictable so with carful planning and the ability to wait, the right conditions can be found.

Re the Tuna yes there are but catching a 1meter tuna on a 3meter boat might not end with the hope for result. ( bet you would exceed the calculated boat speed though)

RE the relishing of oil under way. I have been looking at the possibility of making a permanent oiling connection to the oil plug in the back of the gear box with a flexible tube up to a small hand pump on the boat. This way ever hour of so a small quantity of fresh oils could be flushed through. I don't believe overfilling presents a problem as the engines are direct drive. The key would be not to pressurise so the pumping system must be sensitive. Another possibility is to use a header tank positioned on the transom. Taking the sg. of the oil into account, the tank would provide a sight positive pressure into the box which would effetely seal it by seepage past the bearing.

During the four hour test run only about a 50ml of oil entered the box, very little and no oil was washed out, so the box is not clapped out. The oil, when draining, was extremely thick, viscos and stayed separated from the water. To empty the box it was necessary to remove the front cover. Previously over short runs of 30 minutes or so the oil remained in satisfactory condition not even requiring replacement or at best a few ml top up.

The actual oil used is Penrite 140 Gear oil. This oil replaces Penrite limslip and transoil which according to Penrite have been discontinued.

AJ
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Hugz
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by Hugz »

Admittedly this was for an SD: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2276&p=14716&hilit= ... and#p14716

Incidentally apart from the cotton wheel type bush at top of box was there much other differences internally in the early and later boxes?
Adrian Dale
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by Adrian Dale »

That is an interesting post but the price !! any way worth looking into thanks

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Charles uk
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by Charles uk »

I've never caught a Tuna that big & only ever caught them just south of Flinders & 25 miles west of Bermuda.
So I don't belive they grow that big!

Only the longer pinion shaft to suit the cotton reel bush Hugo.
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chris
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by chris »

Adrian Have you checked the local REPCO agent at Kingston as I get all my penrite oil through repco, according to the penrite site t140 is still stocked
Last edited by chris on Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by Collector Inspector »

A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
Adrian Dale
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by Adrian Dale »

I rest my case B !!!!!
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Charles uk
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by Charles uk »

Wish I could master photoshop.
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by THCL500J8 »

Has any body experimented with sealing the gearbox ?
Were the very late F N R gearboxes sealed?
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Charles uk
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Re: Gearbox Oils

Post by Charles uk »

Proper oil seals were used in some of the featherweight boxes, clutched model 40's, the clutched model 75 & all the post war ENFR boxes.

But doing the job properly, i.e. using seals that will stop lube leakage & water ingress & don't seem to carry too much of an efficiency overhead might require a full lower unit redesign.
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