Australian Delivery AC17964

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Collector Inspector
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Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by Collector Inspector »

Great time unpacking.

Totally caked on oil residue some baked on so I reckon a protectant.

1st drench in kerosene and a scrub and a quick blast with the pressure washer shows a good result. The Old Dear had a starting issue at some stage so see below.

Points were loose and filthy so normal cleaning and adjustment. Has compression, free air spark gap roughly at 0.112" with a better lead now. The carb was loose so someone tried that as well.

Some pre-pics for you all.

Happy

B

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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by Collector Inspector »

I asked of the seller if there was any history regarding this motor?

True to Aussie Form She replied as:


"Hey Bruce

I know my great grandfather bought it brand new, he ordered it from England. Heres a couple of photos of it on a boat that he built. Christmas 1961 at Wellington Point. If I find any paperwork on it I will let you know."


PDF file of photos was attached so let me convert them shortly and add later. They are rather cool as one may expect :D

One thing I have learned over the years of obtaining Old Dears is that there is always a history if you care to ask aye. Sorting out images.........................soon.

The only thing that I have had to come to grips with over the years is that the Old Dears in MY care are basically the initial property of owners that have passed away.

Not being mordlin just a thought aye.

B
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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by headdownarseup »

B
looking much better after a "quick bath"
The gearbox you've got earmarked for this should fit nicely and make it LOOK more correct :)
From memory, the original photos showed this motor without a spark plug fitted in the cylinder?
Is it stiff to turn at all?

I do enjoy seeing an old machine like this coming back to life. That first time the motor fires up (sometimes coughing and spluttering) after years of hibernation is PRICELESS.
I wish i was there to see and hear it for my self.
How about a video of the "first pull".?


Like you, iv'e often pondered over whether we should be called "owners" or custodians?
In years to come (hopefully) my 2 sons will take over my "collection" of motors and have a similar interest in most things mechanical.
Time will tell




Keep the pics coming

LOVE IT


jon
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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by Collector Inspector »

This has turned into an easy laid back service and tune.

Water jacket is empty so really cool. Just screwed the plugs back in after a flush that was not really needed because the worst in there was what looked like pollen. If there is a hot spot later I will attend to that then.

Ignition confirmed as adequate for start. Longevity with full time use unknown.

Compression is not worthy of actually putting a gauge on as is very well adequate. Nice and bouncy.

Carb service and clean out was a snap but needed another slide. Filter gauze has seen better daze but will do for now.

Replaced throttle cable and Amal adjuster to be as was back when. (I need to replenish parts drawer now)

Fuel tap kit is in as well. Tank is for later as I am just thinking of "Preservation of Old Decal" only.

Working the way down and gearbox off and proper one on later. (Unless someone notes that maybe the gearbox may well be correct Maybe)

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An interesting pic below in that if the Old Thing had a crankcase leak it may have been sorted very neatly. Time will tell.
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Pic of ignition stamping in case someone is documenting aye?
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Cheers

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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by Collector Inspector »

By the way.

Here are pics on the bucket as when the old Dear first got into my care.

This is an open Bucket so enjoy whatever you can see.

http://s401.photobucket.com/user/collec ... t=3&page=1

Cheers

B
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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by Collector Inspector »

Had a spare 10 minutes..................below is probably rubbish but kept me interested.

Relates to suspected date on flywheel and probably nothing else of any relevance.

Some further fossilizing.

The ignition is 7(July)-50 which blends in with.........

Data Specific To Serial Number 'AC17964'

Series: The 102 Series

Manufacture Date: 1950 to 1951



'AC' Coded Engines
Years Manufactured 1946 to 1956
Series 102
Model Clutch Drive
Gear Oil SAE or EP140
Picture
Years Manufactured 1946 to 1957
Model Name 102
Gearbox Clutch 2.5:1
Prop 9 1/2" (Two blade, bow-tie)
Fuel Mix Ratio 8:1
Cylinder Style Long Water Jacket
HP 4
Gear Oil SAE or EP 140
The 102 used the Amal 2 jet carb exclusively. However, the replacement if it failed, in later years, was the 416, so some may have been changed. Strangely enough that carb will run reasonably happily on 10:1, which older, pre 1968, motors should run on. John, SOS.
Engine Size 102cc


Then from other the engine number range for 50-51 is from AC12867 - AC20340

Mine is as noted above, AC 17964

Difference is say 20340 subtract 12867........7473 units made.

Divide by 12months so everything being equal (They were making 4 other models at that time) would be 623 per month.

Then subtract 12867 from 17964 would be mine was the 5097th one made that year?

We know that 623 were made each month so divide 5097 by 623 would be the 8th month 1950.

The ignition had been on a shelf waiting for an estimated 1 month before being fitted to a finished motor.

Seems correct using some very basic assumptions aye?

Another Thought

All being equal in that Seagull ran shift work we can use the 1950 calendar..........

http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?ye ... &country=9

So we Know that there was so many a month persay so we need to get down to actual days so that would be the 5097 divided by 364 which would be about 14 Units a 24hr shift.

Let us say Seagull going full swing shifts that would be 7 days a week?

7 days has a turn on of 196 units then. There would have been other models being made along the way of course.

We know that AC17964 is the 5097th roughly.

So let us divide 5097 by 196 should be weeks taken.

26 weeks sort of.

26 weeks into the calander is 26 x7 which is182 days.

182 days into calander is...... 1st July 1950

OK.......Maybe there was no working on a Sunday so we have to add all of the Sundays not worked.

Sundays = 26.....(27 for the last Sunday DEC 1949).

Add 27 to 1st July would be.......Friday 28th July 1950.

Anything is possible and good fun to speculate what may have happened so long ago.

B
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Charles uk
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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by Charles uk »

What about the other models they were also building at the same time like the AD?

If the gear lube is SAE 140 would this imply an oil filler end cap & sub ejector exhaust?
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by Collector Inspector »

Tank

Somewhat of a concern as to how to go about saving it and protecting what is there in my mind.

I do not wish to strip it back at all really....................just make secure for the future what it is.

Some gentle time consuming effort to clean it nicely and use a good quality matt clear seal over the top is the way I am thinking so far. Done it before on something other. Worked well.

What would you do?

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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by Collector Inspector »

Charles uk wrote:What about the other models they were also building at the same time like the AD?

If the gear lube is SAE 140 would this imply an oil filler end cap & sub ejector exhaust?
Stated "Divide by 12months so everything being equal (They were making 4 other models at that time) would be 623 per month."

All of the other is from SOS site.

B
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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by headdownarseup »

B
i think your "assumptions" are fairly good and true.
I would go along with production numbers being more or less right as per your post.
From what i've uncovered so far, BS were producing AC,AD,AHC,(probably the first F's by then as well) so that's at least 4 different motors in the line up for 1950/1.

Just from having a look at the pics, as before, just one major part has been "played" with on this motor and that's the gearbox/prop.
Everything else looks spot on for its age. (compared to what i've seen or own myself) You've already got the right box and the prop came with it, so what are you waiting for?

Tanks and decals are a tricky thing to preserve. Have a word with H-A and ask him what he does with "old dear" tanks.
If it were me, i'd buy another decal (flying seagull) and completely redo everything.

Looking good though,keep going :D

Brings a smile to my face to see something old like this coming back to life

MORE PICS PLEASE (and how about a video of the "first start up" warts and all :lol: )

love it love it love it!


you make JON very happy B

:D
Adrian Dale
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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by Adrian Dale »

I am sure I would preserve the old decal... love the authenticity. Be good to hear from the gurus what the best method would be but your suggestion sounds right.

AJ
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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by headdownarseup »

H-A's your man to talk to.

The tank on his MARSTON was in similar (if not worse) condition than this, and now looks SUPERB.

take a look at the CHOLSEY RUN pics, i think there's 1 or 2 on there showing the tank!

Pretty time consuming none the less, but worth it.

jon
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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by Collector Inspector »

OK

Found the box required that I used for WC177KK3.

Took me an hour to get it out from under what is still a mess from "The Great Move of 2012".

I just realised that it is a bitsa anyway...................all nice though so another project later.

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This is the box.........................were they painted in 1950? I have all the choices for fill plugs available.
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May NOT swap soon as look at the pump housing that was on it when I first got the thing. Those that have been around for a while will remember this motor as "Chook" :D
DSC02355.JPG


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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by headdownarseup »

B
you've got everything you need right there!
The "slotted inlet" gearbox that is/was currently fitted to your AC, fit that one onto the WC.

The "holey" gearbox is what should be on your AC.

The later type of pump housing (currently fitted on "chook") is what goes on the WC (with the cut out for the clutch rod instead of a hole) make sense?


From the data, ALL 102 gearboxes that are/were pre 1957 (holed not slotted) were NOT PAINTED just polished.
After 57(slotted) were painted.

You might find that underneath the paint it might be ok for polishing? but there again it looks ok as is. do as you will :D

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Re: Australian Delivery AC17964

Post by Collector Inspector »

Thanks Jon, gearboxes are go Phew.

Noticed something when contemplating the tank preservation in that the gold decal, that I have a few, in this case has the remains of feathers so not completely gold. A painted Gull in a gold banner?

The crud under the clamps is really hard rubber remains which I can carefully trim back.

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The generally available Gold Decal also has different internal banner trim.
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