AD16381

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AusAnzani
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AD16381

Post by AusAnzani »

Arrived home last night after a plick of a day at work and thought it was about time I got into my AD 102. So here it is, serial number AD16381 purchased 8 months or so ago along with a TC for a grand total of AU$100. Turns nicely, but was used in salt water before put in storage for some 30 years so it doesn’t look quite as nice as it should. We’ll fix that!

Please excuse the bulk photo upload. There are however 2 reasons for this.

1. From the experts, I would like to hear your opinions on what’s right and what’s wrong with this (in terms of parts fitted) before I get stuck in to restoring it.
2. To assist Jon with his collection of 102 data. Sorry Jon, I don’t know exactly what you need, but hope you can get it from the photos below.

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Look forward to your input/comments.

Kind Regards,
Spiro
www.vintageoutboardsaustralia.blogspot.com
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AusOB_Collector
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Re: AD16381

Post by AusOB_Collector »

Hi Spiro

Am in no ways one of the experts here on SOS but my eye sees a few things -

Wrong fuel tank cap (should be the metal one with wings)
Incorrect tiller grip (should be a 'dover' methinks)
Gearbox clamp screw incorrect (should be a hex head bolt not pan head screw)
Incorrect exhaust tube clamp screw (should be identical to the fuel tank strap screws I think)

Fuel tank is in good shape, no visible dents to my eye...

Carbie float bowl on wrong side
Possibly wrong shroud on carbie (should it be just Seagull?? I am probably wrong on that...)

Edit -
Wrong float chamber fuel pipe union/ attachment... that is a later type.
Obviously the carrying handle shouldn't be there either

Other than that it looks like a nice 102 you have there S. I'll forward you on the email from Jon with regds. to data & info needed from your 102.

Cheers
BP
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Collector Inspector
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Re: AD16381

Post by Collector Inspector »

Very Nice S!

This would sit very nicely alongside AC17964.....Same time envelope.

The gearbox may have had the nipple added......Maybe earlier a tad with the blank cap?

BnC
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Hugz
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Re: AD16381

Post by Hugz »

If my memory serves right the later AD with the sub ejector has one nipple on the gearbox and another on the water pump housing on the other side.

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The earlier ones with the straight out exhaust have two nipples on the box with one on the pump housing on the same side.

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Keith.P
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Re: AD16381

Post by Keith.P »

Collector Inspector wrote:

The gearbox may have had the nipple added......Maybe earlier a tad with the blank cap?

BnC
Yes the nipple doesn't look like it fits flush.
I didn't think they use nylock nuts on the gearbox either.
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AusAnzani
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Re: AD16381

Post by AusAnzani »

Hi guys, thanks for the input thus far.

Agree many bolts, screws etc are not correct and will be replaced ie if the receiver threads have not been tapped.

Have a replacement correct fuel tank clamp but not a tiller grip. Not sure if I agree with comments re float bowl being on wrong side of carby and would appreciate some further clarification on that. A pic of the right carby and fuel pipe arrangement would be ideal.

All stripped down now with the exception of transom assembly. Heat will need to be applied to free up parts.

Barrel taken down to bare and is in incredible condition. Flywheel has come up well also, but needs a tad more work before I'm satisfied.

More photos in a few days.

In the meantime any additional input would be most welcomed.

Regards
S
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AusOB_Collector
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Re: AD16381

Post by AusOB_Collector »

Spiro

On all Seagulls fitted with an AMAL twin jet carbie, the float bowl should be on the right of the carb body with the lettering facing inwards because the fuel pipe shape fits that design; remember it should be a curved 90 deg. angle if you know what I mean.

Cheers
BP
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headdownarseup
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Re: AD16381

Post by headdownarseup »

Relax, it's not all bad.
Yes the fuel cap is wrong (should really be the aluminium type with wings) Top marks to Boyd.

I would love a better close up pic of the fuel pipe though. It might actually be correct although difficult to tell yet. I know of 2 types in this style so far. Black pipe with metal fittings (as is yours) and a clear pipe (occasionally reinforced clear pipe similar to garden hose) with metal fittings, not to be confused with the slightly later clear pipe with crimped fittings at either end. Data very scarce in this area so anything you can add here will help.

1 nipple in the gearbox seems to tie in with others on record so far.

Tiller grip is wrong, probably the "dover" type is what you need (although data is a bit sketchy at the moment on this)

As for a nipple in the sub ejector pump housing, i've yet to see one? More common in straight out back types as for SD's/P's and most of the very early pre A series motors (D,C,HC) as well as all the A series motors up to approx. a 9000 (ish) number.Then we see the arrival of the "sub ejector". After this period things change a bit. Some boxes with just 2 nipples (none in the pump housing) and later just 1 nipple (as is yours) after that NO nipples at all. Data is still quite scarce for this time period but slowly getting there.

Positioning of the float bowl for this time period is more than likely correct. It was only in later times that the decision to move the float round to the other side became the norm to help with the fuel from expanding and flooding caused from sitting next to a hot cylinder. Seagull manuals will say similar i'm sure. A lot will depend on what kind of fuel pipe is fitted currently. Metal pipes are obviously quite restrictive, plastic/nylon pipes are a bit more forgiving and bendy. (what we normally see with most 102's today) Plus the bowl is the other way around. It's your motor after all. You decide which way is best.

Inlet cowl looks right for this time period.

Throttle lever is wrong (should really be a turned up lever with "AMAL" stamped into the top cover) and not the later more common type currently fitted.

Some better pics of the thrust block and transom mounting and tilt hook with stay rod would be good too if you can manage it. :P

Please bear in mind that all information is from data collected so far. Early days yet, but so far so good.

To put you in the picture what i need is EVERY LITTLE DETAIL about the motor. Most of it i can already see from the pics which is good, helps me no end.

I think that's about it Spiro.When you're ready, send me the data on a simple spreadsheet listing anything and everything on it and i'll do the rest from here. As many details as possible as it all adds up little by little.
Send me a pm if you need anything else.
Take a quick peek at the pics below for a throttle lever :P

Jon
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AusOB_Collector
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Re: AD16381

Post by AusOB_Collector »

I would love a better close up pic of the fuel pipe though. It might actually be correct although difficult to tell yet. I know of 2 types in this style so far. Black pipe with metal fittings (as is yours) and a clear pipe (occasionally reinforced clear pipe similar to garden hose) with metal fittings, not to be confused with the slightly later clear pipe with crimped fittings at either end. Data very scarce in this area so anything you can add here will help.
Jon, I say that the fuel pipe/ possibly float bowl is incorrect as the fuel pipe on this is just a push fit onto the connector on the bottom of the float bowl. I am under the impression those push fit connections came later than the 50's. Look very closely at the last pic and you can clearly see that there is a push-fit connection on the float bowl.

Looking at every pic of 102's on the main SOS website, all the float chambers are to the right of the carbie, and I can quite easily see that in a 1939 102 ad so I don't think they changed the positioning and then changed it back.

Bruce's 102 (AC) is very close agewise to Spiro's, and it does not have the push fit connection for the fuel pipe. Also, I think a clear fuel pipe with metal fittings would be correct for this?

I'll check

Cheers
BP
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Hugz
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Re: AD16381

Post by Hugz »

Ow dang... I'm going to have to descend down to the very darkest bowels of this labyrinth and check my AD's. I now have a miners torch which affixes to my head so I have an additional hand free in case I bump into zombies or worse. The danger I put myself in the pursuit of seagull knowledge :shock:

It's not a full moon is it?

Agree a sub ejector with a nipple does seem strange, hence my descent.
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Hugz
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Re: AD16381

Post by Hugz »

SD's definitely have bowl to left closer to spark plug. Looks like the D and C were the first to change this.
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Re: AD16381

Post by Collector Inspector »

Regarding the fuel bowl...

I found that the bowl clashed with the transom clamp limiting turning to starboard. I placed it to the rear but the fuel pipe when softened under the hot tap was deformed. I found a height collar and raised the motor enough so that the bowl cleared the bracket turning as above. The fuel line resumed the proper shape.

All others I have seen with the bowl forward without a collar will hit the clamp. I rotate the bowl if in use......with no height adjuster.....

This could indicate that a rear set bowl requires a different length fuel line?

Or the bowl end fitting on this line is incorrect?

Interesting.

Final assembly of AC

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BnC[/color]
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Re: AD16381

Post by headdownarseup »

How do we explain these then?
In my collection so i can look and check at any time.
The remains of possibly zinc plating is still on the pipe (AC3392) which makes me think it could be age correct for what it is.
Then there's the carb in the pics, untouched (seized solid) and as it was removed from AC1106L at the weekend with the remains of what appears to be a half metal-half nylon pipe? (complete with spiders nest in the float bowl) YUK. And what about the bowl position too. Coincidence or original? I'm left scratching my head on this.
Puzzling?

From a data collection point of view, this particular time period is a minefield for me? I never know what's coming up next :roll:
Once the numbers get past a certain point, things seem to calm down. These early(ish) motors appear to have more than 1 build spec. Or at least this is what i'm starting to see.
These are certainly old motors we're dealing with here with an interesting story to tell. As for what goes on in private ownership many years ago is all quite interesting to me and perhaps others too. Detective work all the way with this, and with a little help from you guys we'll get there in the end.

All good, keep 'em coming eh :P

Jon
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Oyster 49
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Re: AD16381

Post by Oyster 49 »

The rigid played fuel tube is quite correct on early post war engines, also with the float bowl in the forward position. SD engines had the float bowl in the rear position. No idea when the flexi fuel tube came in, late 40s or there abouts.
Adrian Dale
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Re: AD16381

Post by Adrian Dale »

This is AD 4331 cira 1948. This engine has a known history being purchased from Motors of Hobart in 1949 by Julian Christian. Julian Had used the engine regally through to the mid 90's and then intermittently to 1998 when the cylinder failed. Interesting the engine still turns and fires. I have sourced a new cylinder with correct core plugs from the UK, be bringing it back later in the year.

The point of this is that this engine has a flexible fuel pipe and the float is to the crankcase. see pic.

As noted above the two SD's that I have both have the solid fuel pipes (one courtesy of Jon so not original) but the other, which is identical probably is original. Both engines have the float to the cylinder.
AJ

Edit: WD837: Incorrect fuel line and fuel tap
AD 19647: Incorrect fuel line. Carb body is from a newer model but correct spec.

There are numerous other details that are inaccurate but one day. All are running although TC139G3 is having a service and Ad 4331 needs a rebuild

AJ
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