Villiers Coils

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CPomeroy
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby CPomeroy » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:33 pm

Thanks :) I haven't measured the voltage output or the plug gap and max gap. I don't think it will be as high as the original coil due to not getting the 100:1 winding ratio, but it's enough to spark. The plug that's in it was the same one from before it was repaired, cleaned in vinegar.

Apparently 0.15mm is 38swg yes. The original was a bit thinner (in the region of 0.08mm) but I couldn't find any wire that thickness for cheap - It would have been better to use thinner wire to get more windings and a higher voltage, but I was on a budget :) The thicker wire might help the coil last longer too, although that was not my intent.

No paper layers, but I used the kapton tape as a substitute so it wouldn't go bad like the old coil did. There was a layer of kapton between each layer of secondary winding, and there were 9122 (give or take a few) secondary turns in total. I had started to taper the secondary layers but once I realised I needed more space I made them a bit wider. The first few were not very good either as I was getting used to the winding technique.

Gannet
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby Gannet » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:22 am

A most impressive piece of work. Congratulations on achieving a working coil.

Would you have any desire to rewind a M1634E coil from an early 40 series Villiers magneto?
This was the coil spec about which I raised this topic, and which l believe that there is a demand for if we are to keep these early 40s being used out on the water.
Would you like a sample of a failed M1634E to examine for possible rewinding?

Great stuff.

Jeremy

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Collector Inspector
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby Collector Inspector » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:20 am

Yes!

Well done!

BnC
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others

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Oyster 49
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby Oyster 49 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:04 pm

That’s a great bit of work, great stuff. I’ve been collecting unserviceable old coils, I think I’ve got 3 seagull ones and another twin output BMB one also.

headdownarseup
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby headdownarseup » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:08 pm

Great bit of DIY this. (and to a budget as well, that's impressive)
Just what this forum needs. :P

There must be thousands of dead villiers coils all over the place, with more dying every year and this could very well be a good alternative to what some have done already.

I think there's a few members on here that could direct a few duff ignition units your way if you feel the need for a bit more practice :lol:
Nice work, i like it a lot.

Your pic by the way is of a 1930's/40's magneto, what some of us refer to as a "coolie hat".


Jon

CPomeroy
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby CPomeroy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:50 am

Would you have any desire to rewind a M1634E coil from an early 40 series Villiers magneto?


Unfortunately I'm moving house tomorrow to start my first job since graduating, which means I'll be losing access to most of my tools and lathe (and most of my free time :cry: ) Until I can build up my own workshop space and equipment I won't be able to do another project like this. Besides, getting a professional coil-winder to do it would probably be cheaper as they have all the right tools and things on hand.

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Charles uk
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby Charles uk » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:24 am

To illustrate the effort required to rewind a coil, could you tell us how much time you spent on the task of rewinding.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Gannet
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby Gannet » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:15 pm

This post started with me considering what alternatives there are to replacing a failed Villiers M1634E coil as used on the early series 40 and many others. I have purchased a much cheaper (and 0.5" shorter) coil and fitted it to FV5141. Over the last couple of months, I have started and ran it in the tub, where it started and ran very well. Yesterday, I took it to the Yealm estuary in South Devon, UK and gave it a longer run.
As expected it started and ran well. It was a good opportunity during this wet and windy winter, to get out on the water with FV5141 in weather which was quite pleasant:-
FV5141 on River Yealm on 22th Jan 2018.jpg

Anyway, it is up each person as to how to resolve a the problem of a failed Villiers coil. I am happy with what I have done with FV5141 and I expect it will give me the reliability that I require.

Jeremy

Gannet
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby Gannet » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:18 pm

Cannot work out why the photo has not been loaded, so here goes again:-
FV5141 on River Yealm on 22th Jan 2018.jpg
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Gannet
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby Gannet » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:35 pm

For the last couple of weeks I have been on the water in South Devon with FV5141 which has been fitted with the cheaper and smaller M1361 coil. Charles L suggests that it needs a total running of 24 hours before it can be regarded as a 'good' replacement. Quite a lot of running in a small tender/dinghy!
I have confidence in it. It starts first pull 95% of the time. I am using an old 8 COM plug. However total running to date is about 5 hours. Another 19 hours to go! As I will be using my other FVs on my dinghy, it is going to take probably another 5 or 10 years before the 24 hours is achieved.
I think that I am not going to try to achieve the 24 hours. I am happy as it is. I will leave it to the individual to decide what to do when a Villiers coil fails in a 40 Series. The choices have been discussed in this topic.

Jeremy

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Oyster 49
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby Oyster 49 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:46 pm

Good to see the fix is working well 8)

blokewithaboat
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby blokewithaboat » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:51 pm

8)

Gannet
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby Gannet » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:58 pm

Although l have said that l am not trying to achieve the 24 hours running time with the M1361 coil. I have actually over the last few days on the Yealm estuary clocked up another 2 hours, making a grand total of 7 hours!

FV5141 is a great little motor. I am convinced that the key to get good, satisfactory performance out of the FV/FVPs is to ensure that there is good compression. I initially assess this my measuring the clearance between the top of the piston and the combustion chamber. Figures of around 4 to 5mm seem to me to be about what is required. Some of the engines that l have worked on have been up to 9mm!


Jeremy

Gannet
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby Gannet » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:13 pm

FV5141 with its M1361 coil is still going strong. Here is a photo of it doing what it was designed for - pushing a dinghy along. This was last week on the Yealm estuary in South Devon, UK.
FV5141 on River Yealm 15th April 2019.jpg


I know Charles L. wanted to see how this coil stood up to 24 hours use. Well, the total now is about 9 hours - so some way to go! Starting, using an old 8 COM is 95% first pull.

Just a reminder that the M1361 coil for the Villiers magneto is about £25 in lieu of the £65 for the correct M1643E coil.

Putting financial considerations to one side, I would recommend the £65 M1643E, but in real life ……….


Jeremy
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geofflena
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Re: Villiers Coils

Postby geofflena » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:03 pm

I see the Green Spark Plug Co have M1361 coils @ 22.50 inc vat - so if buying plugs or ht lead etc - I may well add one to the basket.
Be nice to breathe some life into the very large pile of villiers ignitions I have - rather than stick on a wipac since its the only working coils I have !


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