Ok.
So there appears to be a strong possibility that there still could be a blockage up in he copper pipe or head?
Still allowing water through enough to appear normal? But not enough to cause excessive spilling out in drive tube?
Will have to get this gull back, sometime asap not only to reopen and check but to get details
At the time I did say we should blow all thru the system but my friend, even thicker than me about gulls just wanted onwards to completion and no hesitations.
See what happens. Thanks.
Who knew...?
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
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Charles uk
- Posts: 4954
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
- Location: Maidenhead Berks UK
Re: Who knew...?
Was there a gasket between the lower unit & the water pump housing, & how thick (approx)?
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Re: Who knew...?
Yes there was.
A thick bakelite like older gasket.
we did remove it and trial run the gull without any improvement.
Then reinserted and added washer to try and drive impellor up and it worked. At least until he walked thru my front gate and drove off.
If he rings back complaining I may have to share the blame
A thick bakelite like older gasket.
we did remove it and trial run the gull without any improvement.
Then reinserted and added washer to try and drive impellor up and it worked. At least until he walked thru my front gate and drove off.
If he rings back complaining I may have to share the blame
Re: Who knew...?
I am a bit confused as to what the exact problem is, although I am easily confused.
If it is just that water is coming out of the two holes half way up the drive shaft tube as well as flowing out of the cooling water exit in the cylinder blockthen there is no problem at all.
If water is also coming out of the top interface between the drive shaft tube and tbe lower crankcase, then that is very unusual. It would suggest that the drive shaft tube possibly needs pushing further up into the crankcase. The steel clamping ring will of course need loosening to do that.
There is no spline at this interface. It is simply a close fit of the drive shaft tube into the crankcase, with the latter have slots to enable the internal diameter to be reduced by the tightening of the steel ring.
Hope this helps, if and when your friend is back in contact.
Jeremy
If it is just that water is coming out of the two holes half way up the drive shaft tube as well as flowing out of the cooling water exit in the cylinder blockthen there is no problem at all.
If water is also coming out of the top interface between the drive shaft tube and tbe lower crankcase, then that is very unusual. It would suggest that the drive shaft tube possibly needs pushing further up into the crankcase. The steel clamping ring will of course need loosening to do that.
There is no spline at this interface. It is simply a close fit of the drive shaft tube into the crankcase, with the latter have slots to enable the internal diameter to be reduced by the tightening of the steel ring.
Hope this helps, if and when your friend is back in contact.
Jeremy
Re: Who knew...?
Jeremy. while all are advising that there is no problem with water exiting the 2 upper holes besides the in the cylinder block the amount coming out of the 2 holes could only be described as a flood. Spurting out like mini fountains if I can say that without being dramatic.
then when turning the motor fractionally left or right it came out of the top joint like a mini fountain also. obviously something amiss. It looked ridiculous.
I used the term spline whereas you indicate that is incorrect. That is the area with the slots.
we considered altering the clamp around the top but that was one area that failed to budge and looked rather overly rusty and suspect.
Finally with the bottom end off and the drive shaft inserted as hard as possible it was also obvious , even with my lack of mechanical knowledge or skills that the gap between the impellor and its position in the tube was way too large , far too large which is why we took the step of adding a washer below on the gearbox end to perhaps help drive up and reduce this gap to smething reasonable.
It did work and thus the water returned to only exiting from the block.
I apologise for my incorrect terminology and I believe I have used up more than my share of time and space aboard here. My spelling has also been terrible definitely made worse by my fading eyesight and lack of checking.
After days of storm sunshine is due here tomorrow so I'm going to leave you gentlemen alone and get out there.
I also need to get the ls details and I glad I decided not to take off the head due to its age and particular problems .
Cheers.
then when turning the motor fractionally left or right it came out of the top joint like a mini fountain also. obviously something amiss. It looked ridiculous.
I used the term spline whereas you indicate that is incorrect. That is the area with the slots.
we considered altering the clamp around the top but that was one area that failed to budge and looked rather overly rusty and suspect.
Finally with the bottom end off and the drive shaft inserted as hard as possible it was also obvious , even with my lack of mechanical knowledge or skills that the gap between the impellor and its position in the tube was way too large , far too large which is why we took the step of adding a washer below on the gearbox end to perhaps help drive up and reduce this gap to smething reasonable.
It did work and thus the water returned to only exiting from the block.
I apologise for my incorrect terminology and I believe I have used up more than my share of time and space aboard here. My spelling has also been terrible definitely made worse by my fading eyesight and lack of checking.
After days of storm sunshine is due here tomorrow so I'm going to leave you gentlemen alone and get out there.
I also need to get the ls details and I glad I decided not to take off the head due to its age and particular problems .
Cheers.
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Charles uk
- Posts: 4954
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
- Location: Maidenhead Berks UK
Re: Who knew...?
My view Jeremy, is that it's unusual to have water coming out of these vent holes, I've only seen it on a messed with SD.
I've not worked on or used many of the early 40's, unlike yourself, are they prone to this?
Have any of our other members suffered from this & on which Seagull model?
We don't ration time & space Grumpy, use as much as you need.
I've not worked on or used many of the early 40's, unlike yourself, are they prone to this?
Have any of our other members suffered from this & on which Seagull model?
We don't ration time & space Grumpy, use as much as you need.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Re: Who knew...?
Grumpy,
it is great to chat about Seagulls - this is just what the forum is all about. There is no problem with your terminology, spelling, or anything else.
I agree with you that a mini fountain out of the top joint, did point to something amiss.Anyway, you seemed to have resolved the problem and your friend has departed apparently relatively happy. Although the mystery remains of how water could get out of the top when turning the motor fractionally..I would worry about the security of the tube within the crankcase.
Charles,
I believe all of my FVs exhibit water exiting out of the drive shaft tube holes. I am away from my FVs at the moment, but I am guessing that these holes are about 6 inches above the water level, so that a pressure of the order of just 0.2 - 0.3 psi generated at the 'central' part of the impeller would suffice to pump the water up to these holes. It is not difficult to believe that would be the case.
Did we not discuss this previously, and suggest that putting the impeller upside down would aggravate this situation? Was the thinking that the semi closed side (ie with the flange) should be on the top side, in order to reduce the flow up the tube?
Jeremy
it is great to chat about Seagulls - this is just what the forum is all about. There is no problem with your terminology, spelling, or anything else.
I agree with you that a mini fountain out of the top joint, did point to something amiss.Anyway, you seemed to have resolved the problem and your friend has departed apparently relatively happy. Although the mystery remains of how water could get out of the top when turning the motor fractionally..I would worry about the security of the tube within the crankcase.
Charles,
I believe all of my FVs exhibit water exiting out of the drive shaft tube holes. I am away from my FVs at the moment, but I am guessing that these holes are about 6 inches above the water level, so that a pressure of the order of just 0.2 - 0.3 psi generated at the 'central' part of the impeller would suffice to pump the water up to these holes. It is not difficult to believe that would be the case.
Did we not discuss this previously, and suggest that putting the impeller upside down would aggravate this situation? Was the thinking that the semi closed side (ie with the flange) should be on the top side, in order to reduce the flow up the tube?
Jeremy
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Charles uk
- Posts: 4954
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
- Location: Maidenhead Berks UK
Re: Who knew...?
On my FVP the hole is 16.25" above the top face of the tufnol water pump housing gasket.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Re: Who knew...?
So, Charles, how far above a typical water level on an FVP?
Isn't an FV drive shaft tube just over 16." long?
Jeremy
Isn't an FV drive shaft tube just over 16." long?
Jeremy
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Charles uk
- Posts: 4954
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
- Location: Maidenhead Berks UK
Re: Who knew...?
Probably 12"So, Charles, how far above a typical water level on an FVP?
Don't think I've got one to measure, where are you Tam?Isn't an FV drive shaft tube just over 16." long?
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Re: Who knew...?
Thanks.
My opinion now, after re reading info on this site is that this LS should ideally not be used ,at least not for hard work, considering its age and lack of availability of spares. As suggested.
however I do know the present owners lacks that appreciation .
Even then it seems an overhaul of at least the lower end , shafts, tubing, joint to the crank case should be undertaken etc to properly sort this lot out.
And that seems unlikely. Or perhaps unnecessary as it should just be a show piece.
Is it possible that some small air gap at the top of the shaft housing, if not on far enough, reduces the air pressure thus allowing the water to rise in such volume and speed?
Now i'm starting to believe I'm a space engineer.
and the sun is now been put off until tomorrow and I know for certain Trump was not on line when the call was made on that one.
Cheers
My opinion now, after re reading info on this site is that this LS should ideally not be used ,at least not for hard work, considering its age and lack of availability of spares. As suggested.
however I do know the present owners lacks that appreciation .
Even then it seems an overhaul of at least the lower end , shafts, tubing, joint to the crank case should be undertaken etc to properly sort this lot out.
And that seems unlikely. Or perhaps unnecessary as it should just be a show piece.
Is it possible that some small air gap at the top of the shaft housing, if not on far enough, reduces the air pressure thus allowing the water to rise in such volume and speed?
Now i'm starting to believe I'm a space engineer.
and the sun is now been put off until tomorrow and I know for certain Trump was not on line when the call was made on that one.
Cheers