Hi, New to the forum and a proud 40+ owner which I use to drive my inflatable tender. I own a 22ft Invader yacht with no inboard engine, currently powered by a very expensive, heavy and complex Honda 10hp. I was toying with a mounting bracket to use the 40+ in an emergency ( No doubt it would struggle but confident it would move ) when my thoughts strayed to getting a larger seagull to replace the Honda. Have seen the other posts where an invader has been moved by a century and the discussions over driving a 30 footer with one and even moving narrow boats and large barges. I appreciate a seagull would not be fast but as my theoretical hull speed is just under 6 knots ( I never realistically see much over 5 ) I am not needing high speed but how practical would a century or similar be? I feel I would be able to get close to hull speed but would it struggle in adverse conditions of wind / tide? any thoughts? Final question, is it even worth trying to find one with reverse? ( forgive my lack of model knowledge, but thats why I am here! ) I know 'good seamanship' means you can cope without 99% of the time but getting out of finger berths in a marina makes reverse highly desirable! I am on a swinging mooring so it is not critical but I might want to treat myself to a marina berth once in a while or when the weather gets a bit much! Any advice gratefully received.
Cheers
Waggles
Main yacht auxilliary?
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
A Century+ would push your boat. I sometimes use a 40+ on my 19 foot R19, sometimes a Century+, and the extra power is sometimes useful.
A Kingfisher would do very well, but they are scarce and not as ruggedly reliable as the Centuries.
Yes it's worth looking for an EFNR (that's the Century with reverse - also known as a Model 90 or 110).
The reverse gearbox models have always been sought after, and prices reflect this.
It's always worth keeping an eye on eBay, or even an entry in the Wanted section of this forum. A call to John Williams on 01621 778859 may well prove useful, if he hasn't got one he may know someone who has.
A Kingfisher would do very well, but they are scarce and not as ruggedly reliable as the Centuries.
Yes it's worth looking for an EFNR (that's the Century with reverse - also known as a Model 90 or 110).
The reverse gearbox models have always been sought after, and prices reflect this.
It's always worth keeping an eye on eBay, or even an entry in the Wanted section of this forum. A call to John Williams on 01621 778859 may well prove useful, if he hasn't got one he may know someone who has.
I am sure a 102 plus will do too, my absolute favorite engine, powerful, extremely reliable and a clutch.
In case you take a Century Plus, than the Silver one is better.
6 knots is too much for a Seagull. I think 4,5 is all you will get, but they are very good in heavy boats and bad weather. No speed, POWER.
Albert
In case you take a Century Plus, than the Silver one is better.
6 knots is too much for a Seagull. I think 4,5 is all you will get, but they are very good in heavy boats and bad weather. No speed, POWER.
Albert
Thanks Albert, hadn't thought of the 102 as they seem rarer but will include it in my shopping list! 4-5 knots should be enough, tides in my neck of the woods rarely get to 3 plus my boat rarely exceeds 5 anyway, she is sedate, like her owner! as long as it is achievable in bad weather as you say it is thats fine.
Another thought, is it possible to fit an FNR gearbox to a century+ or 102? or have all such gearboxes been snapped up long ago?
Another thought, is it possible to fit an FNR gearbox to a century+ or 102? or have all such gearboxes been snapped up long ago?
People have fitted all manner of gearboxes to different heads. Normally I content myself with the answer 'No don't do it' but many here would argue.
FNR gearboxes are scarce, and if you find a good box on the end of a dead Century my advice would be to mend the Century rather than mess about with the 102. A box on its own may cost you a painful amount, there are quite a few who would like to convert their ordinary motor!
The 102 is no more powerful than the century - which isn't unreasonable seeing as they have the same crank and piston etc. There are some who claim a small, power advantage for the wartime 102s, whose porting is slightly different, but the hassle of finding one of those that's good enough would put you off.
If you're not bothered too much about reverse there's a huge choice, and provided the thing is in half decent condition anything on it can be fixed. The thing to look out for - very thoroughly - is a cracked water jacket. New cylinder blocks are expensive, second hand ones scarce.
FNR gearboxes are scarce, and if you find a good box on the end of a dead Century my advice would be to mend the Century rather than mess about with the 102. A box on its own may cost you a painful amount, there are quite a few who would like to convert their ordinary motor!
The 102 is no more powerful than the century - which isn't unreasonable seeing as they have the same crank and piston etc. There are some who claim a small, power advantage for the wartime 102s, whose porting is slightly different, but the hassle of finding one of those that's good enough would put you off.
If you're not bothered too much about reverse there's a huge choice, and provided the thing is in half decent condition anything on it can be fixed. The thing to look out for - very thoroughly - is a cracked water jacket. New cylinder blocks are expensive, second hand ones scarce.
)Shame you're not down here, we could have arranged a competitive trial - 102 against a Century Plus. Can't offer my electronic Century (ESC) because, as you may be aware, some pond life absconded with it. That's the third outboard motor I've had stolen.
We do have some low life around here. There was a murder here a couple of days ago, it makes me shiver to think there's more than one occasion when I have stood at the bar drinking Badger Bitter and chatting with the guy who is now alleged to have shot his own mother and his dogs, then set fire to the house. It makes the barmaid in the pub shiver rather more.
Anyway, Albert is quite right, a 102 is rather quieter. And infinitely better looking, especially if you get a fifties one with the plated exhaust. I have said on this forum before that I have absolutely no idea why British Seagull ever introduced the Centuries when they had a perfectly good 102 range.
We do have some low life around here. There was a murder here a couple of days ago, it makes me shiver to think there's more than one occasion when I have stood at the bar drinking Badger Bitter and chatting with the guy who is now alleged to have shot his own mother and his dogs, then set fire to the house. It makes the barmaid in the pub shiver rather more.
Anyway, Albert is quite right, a 102 is rather quieter. And infinitely better looking, especially if you get a fifties one with the plated exhaust. I have said on this forum before that I have absolutely no idea why British Seagull ever introduced the Centuries when they had a perfectly good 102 range.
Aaaaaargh! I can feel a hankering for a 102 now! lucky I have time to wait!
The trial idea would be fun but I guess we couldn't guarantee that any 102 I might be able to get would be as good as yours anyway, but would still be fun. Perhaps we could use a 'tractor pull' idea where you tow a lifting keel yacht sideways and slowly drop the keel as you go further!
Yes I did hear of your sad loss, maddening isn't it? Unfortunately you don't have to tell me about low lifes as I live in Essex and we certainly have a generous helping. Certainly wouldn't dare leave my seagull on the tender and when at home I am tempted to wire the garage door to the mains!
A pint of badger, now that gives me an idea for lunch....
The trial idea would be fun but I guess we couldn't guarantee that any 102 I might be able to get would be as good as yours anyway, but would still be fun. Perhaps we could use a 'tractor pull' idea where you tow a lifting keel yacht sideways and slowly drop the keel as you go further!
Yes I did hear of your sad loss, maddening isn't it? Unfortunately you don't have to tell me about low lifes as I live in Essex and we certainly have a generous helping. Certainly wouldn't dare leave my seagull on the tender and when at home I am tempted to wire the garage door to the mains!
A pint of badger, now that gives me an idea for lunch....
Hi,
Looks like you may be in luck.
I am in Southend, and have a newly repaired, (I don't like to say restored), 102 with clutch.
PM me if you want to try it out on your boat.
This is an opportunity for me as well, as you get to try the motor to see if it's suitable, and I get a boat ride, and a chance to test the motor not only in a wheelie bin.
I also have a Century, and a 40. You could try all 3 and compare if you wished.
Only condition would be that you supply the fuel, and we then take equal turns on supplying the beer.
Looks like you may be in luck.
I am in Southend, and have a newly repaired, (I don't like to say restored), 102 with clutch.
PM me if you want to try it out on your boat.
This is an opportunity for me as well, as you get to try the motor to see if it's suitable, and I get a boat ride, and a chance to test the motor not only in a wheelie bin.
I also have a Century, and a 40. You could try all 3 and compare if you wished.
Only condition would be that you supply the fuel, and we then take equal turns on supplying the beer.
FNR
If you are approaching the limits of your motor with regard to your boat size then the a reverse gear may be of less use than you think. I have an as new 90 FNR it pushes my boat well enough going forward but when you want to reverse it is pretty tame to say the least due to the flat stern of the boat. You certainly should not expect to change from forward to reverse motion in a hurry. As you say though it is nice to have the option when leaving a dock or getting off a trailer with a sailboat. For me it is not a big issue since mine is used as an auxilary on a power boat so is only for emergency use and all normal manouvering is done with the main motor - in the event of a breakdown forward only motion is fine for me sometimes I carry one of my 40 +'s for this purpose as they are lighter and will still provide some forward propulsion - surprisingly the difference vs the 90 is less than you would imagine. Whilst I'm sure a 90 FNR is lighter and simpler than your Honda it is a heavier than the traditional Seagulls and more complex. For me it loses some of the benefits and charm of the more traditional models - FNR isn't everything.
1975 Forty Plus L/S 30 hrs from new
1976 Forty Plus L/S 1 Gal. Long Range tank
1983 Silver Century 90 EFNR 32 hrs from new
1976 Forty Plus L/S 1 Gal. Long Range tank
1983 Silver Century 90 EFNR 32 hrs from new
There he was, just asking an innocent question on a forum and suddenly there'a ll these people saying 'Here, why don't you try this?' and he's sucked in gently..
..next thing you know he'll be furtively looking in the 'For Sale' ads in the local paper, there'' be cards in the newsagents windows, and he'll be on the Interwebby thing late at night buying BSF and Whitworth spanners.
The wife and children will be neglected, his friends will all fall away because they're frightened he'll start going on about some new outbourd, and the neighbours will start using the word 'eccentric' when they talk about him.
Thses things start innocently enough, you know.
..next thing you know he'll be furtively looking in the 'For Sale' ads in the local paper, there'' be cards in the newsagents windows, and he'll be on the Interwebby thing late at night buying BSF and Whitworth spanners.
The wife and children will be neglected, his friends will all fall away because they're frightened he'll start going on about some new outbourd, and the neighbours will start using the word 'eccentric' when they talk about him.
Thses things start innocently enough, you know.
I know how it works NOW Charles, trouble is its too late! ( and I have been called 'eccentric' amongst other things for years! )
When I bought the 40+ off the bay some time ago I knew seagulls to be simple and reliable when sorted as my dad had one. ( To digress that poor Gull went for a swim in the Blackwater some years back, I swear I heard it continue to run under water for a second or so! No amount of dragging with a grapnel would bring it back so perhaps it did and now lay somewhere yards away from its drop off point! Local legend has it that on very dark misty nights at midnight the lonesome, muffled exhaust of a seagull can sometimes still be heard and those with good eyes can sometimes make out a line of bubbles in the water )
Anyway, back to the 40+, I planned to use it, and use it hard, just sling some oil in the gearbox, quick wipe down with an oily rag and off we go. But of course I suppose cleaning out the carb etc wouldn't hurt would it? that would be easier if I took it off so I can check the needle to see what mixture it should be on, then without realising what was going on I found myself polishing the flaming thing, that exhaust could be a little shinier too couldn't it, and theres that little patch of rust on the barrel .....
This whole thread began from there and the dissatisfaction of using what is undeniably a good Honda engine that you can't get info on ( Why do you want to know sir? bring it here for service ) I tried to explain that there are no service agents 2 miles offshore but they won't be moved, ( and neither will the motor at close on 50 Kgs ) its now a very 'No user serviceable parts inside' world. Also can't help worrying about the Honda water pump if the prop leaves the water for a second when it gets choppy.
Fortyplus, good point re reverse not being that effective, but it was really only for ease when getting out of a marina berth not stopping the boat, might be willing to warp it out or use a single scull over the stern in that situation just to get a simpler motor. Such activities are usually frowned on by marinas though. Generally it was all about using a seagull as a main auxilliary engine on a small sailing yacht, not as a backup. Basically all I will lose is a battery charging circuit, ( Just fitted a windcharger anyway) reverse and quite a lot of weight.
When I bought the 40+ off the bay some time ago I knew seagulls to be simple and reliable when sorted as my dad had one. ( To digress that poor Gull went for a swim in the Blackwater some years back, I swear I heard it continue to run under water for a second or so! No amount of dragging with a grapnel would bring it back so perhaps it did and now lay somewhere yards away from its drop off point! Local legend has it that on very dark misty nights at midnight the lonesome, muffled exhaust of a seagull can sometimes still be heard and those with good eyes can sometimes make out a line of bubbles in the water )
Anyway, back to the 40+, I planned to use it, and use it hard, just sling some oil in the gearbox, quick wipe down with an oily rag and off we go. But of course I suppose cleaning out the carb etc wouldn't hurt would it? that would be easier if I took it off so I can check the needle to see what mixture it should be on, then without realising what was going on I found myself polishing the flaming thing, that exhaust could be a little shinier too couldn't it, and theres that little patch of rust on the barrel .....
This whole thread began from there and the dissatisfaction of using what is undeniably a good Honda engine that you can't get info on ( Why do you want to know sir? bring it here for service ) I tried to explain that there are no service agents 2 miles offshore but they won't be moved, ( and neither will the motor at close on 50 Kgs ) its now a very 'No user serviceable parts inside' world. Also can't help worrying about the Honda water pump if the prop leaves the water for a second when it gets choppy.
Fortyplus, good point re reverse not being that effective, but it was really only for ease when getting out of a marina berth not stopping the boat, might be willing to warp it out or use a single scull over the stern in that situation just to get a simpler motor. Such activities are usually frowned on by marinas though. Generally it was all about using a seagull as a main auxilliary engine on a small sailing yacht, not as a backup. Basically all I will lose is a battery charging circuit, ( Just fitted a windcharger anyway) reverse and quite a lot of weight.