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"flat top" baseplate

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:59 pm
by headdownarseup
I'm after a working baseplate for AC13705.

This particular 102 came to me with the wrong baseplate fitted, and to add insult to injury it no longer makes any kind of spark. The flywheel has the correct age related date numbers so i can re-use this no probs.

If anyone has either a replacement coil from another POST WAR villers ignition, or a complete "flat top" baseplate in working condition i'd love to hear from you. Ideally these normally have either a brass or an aluminium points box, but more importantly the points are adjusted by tiny little lock nuts and NOT a screw as it would be for a later ignition.
Here's hoping...
Take a look at the pics below for identification purposes as these are quite specific for certain years on these older 102's.

Jon

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:54 pm
by Oyster 49
Villiers parts have the points adjusted by the lockscrew, and I imagine he will have coils too?

http://www.villiersparts.co.uk/ignition.html

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:13 pm
by Keith.P
The coils are not available or even rewound, if it uses the larger coil, You can covert to a smaller coil.
Brass points boxes are about, not overly common, and the seagull on have a longer arm, I have some.
If its the normal size coil, I've not gone to look they are common enough.

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:05 pm
by Hugz
I thought only the JM mags have the stud/nut adjuster system. Most have been converted to the slide or are they on the later JM's?

You will need the adjuster spanners with feeler gauge:

2016-12-20 08.57.26.jpg

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:21 pm
by headdownarseup
For Adrian's benefit, (and perhaps others too) here's a quick pic of lock nuts on points inside a brass points box just so there's no confusion as to what it is i'm after.

Not your average villiers baseplate as i've tried to explain, but something a bit more unusual. (and perhaps a lot more scarce than your typical villiers mag)

Enjoy


Keith, send me a pm.

Hugz
I have a pair of those spanners specifically for this type of villiers ignition. (teeny weeny ickle things aren't they) All good :P .I'm not entirely 100% with the feeler gauges on 'em though. I prefer to use a different set of feeler gauges when setting up the points.

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:43 pm
by Hugz
Very unusual! Can we expect to jump up on xmas morning and find the 102 register gift wrapped for our perusal :P :P
How many of these stud points have you come across?

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:52 am
by headdownarseup
They're only in what i term the "flat top" magnetos and of course the coolie mags.

Everything made after these became a lot more conventional (more what everybody's used to seeing)

As for the 102 data, i'm getting there. Not quite as quick as i'd like, but i'll get something up on here for you to look at. Albeit now in a trimmed down version.

Jon

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:32 am
by Keith.P
Not that common, but still about on Ebay and one from home.

mag.jpg


Mag 1.jpg

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:07 am
by Hugz
Strewth... just checked My D and it has the mentioned base plate and the stud points. How very exciting!!

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:04 pm
by headdownarseup
Yep
It's funny what you can find when you actually look.
I think this particular ignition system is/was very common at the time and fitted to 102's and the very first of the 40 series motors (F's in this case) made between 46 up to around 51, so around 5 years or so until a design change by villiers was made when we begin to see a more "common" looking baseplate with no rim.

The term "flat top" is what i use within my data sheets, but recently i've had to revise this to MK1 , that is to say an ignition system made after the coolie hat type.
You can call it what you like, but in my data sheets they will appear as this just to simplify things a bit.

I won't bore you with the details on the others too much but they're catalogued as MK1A, MK1B, MK1C for "rimless", "half round rim" and "3/4 round rim".
(and before anyone starts complaining, yes i will wherever possible put up photos to show the differences)
Speaking of data sheets, i'm going through the last of the finishing touches on what i've got so far. Re-jigging stuff, shuffling bits and bobs around.

It's all systems GO GO GO this end in preparation for the deadline which is fast approaching.

Jon

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:19 pm
by Oyster 49
For Adrian's benefit, (and perhaps others too) here's a quick pic of lock nuts on points inside a brass points box just so there's no confusion as to what it is i'm after.


I know exactly what you are on about. Villiers parts have the points listed on their website, but low on stock. I'd give George a call quick.

The brass points box is the same as fitted to SD and prewar Marstons, then subsequently fitted to the early post war flat top baseplates.

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:25 pm
by Keith.P
Just had another look in the shed, an early AC with brass points box, I never knew that.


IMG_1300.JPG




IMG_1303.JPG

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:02 pm
by Hugz
Yes, mine has a brass point box too.

Oops, I gave George at Villiers a hard time for sending me a brass box years ago for an SD, mind you I did particularly ask for stud points and he sent me the modern slider ones. When I questioned that, his response was to the affect "what's your problem, it works doesn't it". So much for authenticity or was I being an emo?

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:23 pm
by headdownarseup
Yep
they're in all sorts of early 102's from 46 to 51 (ish) which include D,C,HC(even though i havn't come across one of these yet),AC's,AD's and AHC's and perhaps a bit earlier still the SDP's although the jury is still thinking things over at the moment with this. Definitely post war motors for sure.


Just to re-cap, if anyone has either a working coil or a complete working baseplate let me know, otherwise i'll have to pay a kings ransom on some new gear. Just thought i'd try the forum first for any help.

Jon

Re: "flat top" baseplate

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:33 am
by Charles uk
Jon your data must tell you that the SDP's were produced during the last ish 5000 wartime serial numbers, so why would you think Dr Who delivered flat top flywheels for them.

Early C,D & HC's had coolie hat ignitions, which would imply that everything produced before them, would also carry the same earlier ignitions.

I have an AD 38**, hex core plug with an aluminium points box & a slider screw adjuster, pre dated flywheel, also a mint AC 96** slotted core plug, with the same points box, the mint AC was the tank that Sharpy used for his logo artwork.