SD 102

[Charles uk]

SD's only had 1 ignition fitted when new, an M1030x16 Villiers coil with a 9/16" core.

Yours looks like it's already had an ignition swap at some time in it's history, the JM & serial number could confirm that, yours appears to have most of the copper top parts but with an ally top ignition that looks home painted.

If you get all the details from yours & some good pics to Hugz, he should be able to answer just about all of your questions.

[seagull101]

Mine would be original as its unused condition, Its a army version so that's why its painted green.

Pics coming in a minute.

Jacob

[seagull101]

Attached is the ignition of my SD.
Then the spare ignition I have, My question is would the COIL ONLY fit and work on my SD.

Jacob

[Keith.P]

Yes with a little modification.

[headdownarseup]

Jacob

Your first 2 pics show a slightly later (what i've termed as) MK1 FLAT TOP baseplate. Quite different to what SHOULD BE on your SD. These ignition systems are generally more common on post war 102's up to about the early 1950's and they also have a Flat topped flywheel, hence the term "flat top". Just because it has some green paint here and there doesn't necessarily mean it's a genuine wartime item. I can't begin to remember how many so called "un-touched barn found condition" seagulls i've come across over the last few years that once belonged to somebody's great uncle that served in the second world war. It's only when you start asking questions that you find out the truth about some things. Things aren't always as they seem.

Your 3rd pic is of a proper original "coolie" baseplate. This is what your SD should have, accompanied with a "peaked" flywheel that has 4 spokes.It will also have a JM number stamped into the top somewhere. All of the later villiers flywheels have 3 spokes so it's very easy to identify between early and mid-late flywheels.

The "coolie" coil is longer and slightly fatter than the later and more common coils you can find all over the place on ebay etc.
HOWEVER, with some nifty modifications it is possible to retro-fit a "common" coil into the coolie baseplate. Have a word with Hugo and he'll talk you through it, better still watch his short video on you-tube. These "common" coils are shorter and slimmer than the 70+ year old originals, hence the need to modify them slightly with spacers either side of the coil cheeks so they can fit.
The only other alternative is to buy the correct reconditioned coil from Villiers parts, a bit pricey but worth it. I'm going to have to do the same with my SD at some point as it too has a duff coil.

I'm fairly confident that if your vintage 1944 manual has any drawings of the ignition system it will help to answer a few things for you. wink

Jon

[Charles uk]

Jon his green flywheel & coil is a coolie hat, that's the Mk1 he's trying to repair it with.

His parts pictures are from a 62 manual not a 44, so have the flat top pics.

[seagull101]

Hi Jon,
The 3rd pic is whats currently on my SD.
I will see if I can get the coil to fit tomorrow.
I do understand where you are coming from about unused motors but I think that my SD genuinely is unused. None of the bolts have been undone, none of the screws have marks on. Has the label on the clutch lever showing how to operate.
The booklet is for the ministry of supply 1944 which would have probably got lost over time.
Has the original canvas cover and has the small bag that contains plug and many springs still in greaseproof paper.

Jacob

[Charles uk]

I spoke to the vendor Jacob, the daughter was selling it on her mother's behalf, it had been her fathers, I was told by Mum it had at least 17 years of use in the canal that passes close to St Albans, when I asked about salt water use, prior to that she had no idea. It also had some slight lateral play in the top main bearing, a symptom of a reasonable amount of use.

The motor had many of the parts that you would expect to see on a "copper top" but was fitted with a poorly painted green "aluminium coolie hat cover & flywheel, all the other green SDs that I've looked at had a very matt green paint, whereas yours had a hint of glossiness with obvious paint runs.
Army green SDs were painted almost everywhere right down to the waterline, though I've only looked at 3 or 4 green ones (I didn't get to see the boxed green one that was posted on here) & 2 or 3 with traces of grey, Army ones that I've seen also had the box number it came from or their military serial number stencilled in white on the green painted exhaust tube.

[tambikeboy]

I spoke to the vendor Jacob, the daughter was selling it on her mother's behalf, it had been her fathers, I was told by Mum it had at least 17 years of use in the canal that passes close to St Albans, when I asked about salt water use, prior to that she had no idea. It also had some slight lateral play in the top main bearing, a symptom of a reasonable amount of use.

The motor had many of the parts that you would expect to see on a "copper top" but was fitted with a poorly painted green "aluminium coolie hat cover & flywheel, all the other green SDs that I've looked at had a very matt green paint, whereas yours had a hint of glossiness with obvious paint runs.
Army green SDs were painted almost everywhere right down to the waterline, though I've only looked at 3 or 4 green ones (I didn't get to see the boxed green one that was posted on here) & 2 or 3 with traces of grey, Army ones that I've seen also had the box number it came from or their military serial number stencilled in white on the green painted exhaust tube.

Correct answer same story she told me..

[Hugz]

I have to agree that I think the green was added after. Tank straps were also painted on yours. The JM number may or may not lets us know if it was the original mag.

Now as for the coil. A lot of mucking around to get one to fit. I have done but only bench tested and not tested on the water. The Mk1 core is 7/16" ie 1/8" diameter less and also the core shaft is shorter so two adapters need to be made up. There is some question about the layers of insulation in the coils being different which changes the value of induction which may necessitate a different condensor. Having four pick up points may too cause some varients on the induced EMF. I compiled a quick vid of what I did. Apologies for the fuddy duddy music, I'm a bit behind the times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0k5tFWHEtc

Personally, I would at this stage replace the coolie hat magneto with the MK1 mag until the coil can be replaced. You will note on page 7 of your line drawings it shows a mk1 magneto replacement (which dates the drawings later than '44)

When you say the coil is bad have you an open circuit reading (multi meter) from the pick up point (where the HT lead connects) and earth?

By the way that is one of the nicest looking original tank decals I've seen on an SD!! Glad it wasn't painted over.

[tambikeboy]

Excellent vid very helpful. Going by the sounds it seems to me that your lacking some two stoke china

[seagull101]

Is that for sale tam?

[tambikeboy]

Everything's for sale was put on sale page weeks ago for offers or fvp swaps.

[seagull101]

Is it still for sale?

[tambikeboy]

Roger that china....