high tension lead or...?

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deacon bruce
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:13 pm
Location: Boston USA

high tension lead or...?

Post by deacon bruce »

Have been running bodgered Silver Century with Mark I Villiers points ignition. Ran well for few years. Few weeks ago, motor slowed suddenly and wouldn't restart. Rowed back to landing, put boat on trailer, then tried to start it. First pull!

Since then I have:

1. Replaced inline filter between tank and carb (I know, it's ugly but easier that re[placing missing one in tank).
2. Replaced filter in carb.
3. Ran motor in barrel. Started well and ran well but started running unevenly at mid rpm. Blipped throttle few times and it cleared up.
4. Thinking it might be a fouled plug, I removed, cleaned and gapped plug.
5. While at it I checked points gap, readjusted a bit.
6. Now it won't start. No spark at either plug or points.

Questions:
Might this be the high tension lead? How do I check it? With an ohm meter?
Coil?
Stupidity?
All of the above?

Help or I will be forced to resurrect a 1960's era 6hp Johnson 2 cylinder. Prefer Seagulls to Seahorses.
Keith.P
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:43 pm
Location: Hertfordshire
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Re: high tension lead or...?

Post by Keith.P »

Get the Johnson going.
Close down the points gap.
HT lead is just a copper core wire, unless you have a suppressor, late one have.
You can ohm test it all with a meter.
deacon bruce
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:13 pm
Location: Boston USA

Re: high tension lead or...?

Post by deacon bruce »

Not sure what you mean by "close down the points gap?" And why? Gap is set at .020 inch.

Suppressor? Not sure what you mean. Do the early Villiers have suppressors?

Johnson is a nice engine, smoother with 2 cylinders, but much too complex for me with reed intake, separate fuel tank, etc.

If you lived close to Boston, I might consider a trade for a Gull.

If lead is just copper wire, resistance would be close to zero ohms, or very low?

Would flywheel have to be removed to test coil?

Is the high tension lead and coil expensive?
Keith.P
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:43 pm
Location: Hertfordshire
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Re: high tension lead or...?

Post by Keith.P »

A lot of HT leads ended up with inline suppressor fitted to them, not by BS, as I have been told, but I have seen a lot of leads fitted with them.
The ignition charges when points are closed and produces a spark when they open, if you reduce the points gap, the points stay closed a touch longer and should give a better spark. IE a broken wire in the secondary winding in the coil, the coil will not work, reduce the points gap, a stronger spark may jump that break in the coil wire and give you a spark, but it will also prove you will need to replace the coil.
Secondary winding resistance should be 3-5k Ohms
I have a handful of Jonnyrudes myself.
No need to remove flywheel and yes zero ohms readings would show up a problem.
A picture I did may help.
deacon bruce
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:13 pm
Location: Boston USA

Re: high tension lead or...?

Post by deacon bruce »

How much should the gap be closed?
What should resistance of high tension lead be?
How can I test coil without removing flywheel?

Appreciate your help.
deacon bruce
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:13 pm
Location: Boston USA

Re: high tension lead or...?

Post by deacon bruce »

When testing high tension lead I would expect resistance to be 0 or only slightly more, is that right? A simple continuity tester would indicate whether the lead is broken or defective.
Keith.P
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:43 pm
Location: Hertfordshire
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Re: high tension lead or...?

Post by Keith.P »

Take it down to .015 inch and see if you have a spark, You do get a small resistance reading on most things, its a reading you need, no reading, no good.
deacon bruce
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:13 pm
Location: Boston USA

Re: high tension lead or...?

Post by deacon bruce »

Don't understand why there should not be close to zero reading on high tension lead. No, or close to no, resistance should indicate lead is ok, not broken, right?

Have used ohm meter and get following:

High tension lead complete continuity end to end, no ohms. Pegs needle.

Coil:
checking from end to end of coil with points open, then closed, shows continuity, like high tension lead.

End of coil to end of high tension lead:
3,000 ohms, points open or closed.

Not sure what I'm doing here.

Maybe I should replace coil and high tension lead? Is this a simple job, expensive?

How about condenser?

Help please. Appreciate your patience.
Keith.P
Posts: 2830
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:43 pm
Location: Hertfordshire
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Re: high tension lead or...?

Post by Keith.P »

A condenser is just a Capacitor and you can do a basic checked on them, as it just holds a charge, Try this link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxD1OpP ... edge%20Guy
It sounds like the TH lead is fine, As for as the coil goes, they are pretty easy to find over here, but not always easy to install.
Try this, it will may help with the coil. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT8rk5Q ... 0outboards
deacon bruce
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:13 pm
Location: Boston USA

Re: high tension lead or...?

Post by deacon bruce »

Keith:

Many many thanks. Wish I had followed your earlier advice about reducint points gap. Thought while I was tracking down original problem I would re gap plug, check points gap, etc. Reset points gap to specified .020, and that's where the problem started. You suggestion that I reduce point gap was spot on. Started first pull. However leaves me wondering about original problem.

However, delightful trip through my Gull's innards. Exploratory surgery if you will.

I know just enough to get me in trouble. Just washed engine bay in my 2011 Hyundai Accent. Nice and shiny. Shorted out electrics, had to replace coils . Still not running well. Leave well enough alone. If it ain't broke don't fix it. I tend to think if it ain't fixed, break it!

Nice to have fixed one thing though. Again my thanks.

Bruce
deacon bruce
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:13 pm
Location: Boston USA

how to replace coil

Post by deacon bruce »

Dead again.

Replaced Gull with Johnson motor.

Intend to replace coil over winter. Would appreciate advice, pictures, etc.
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seagull101
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:30 pm
Location: Scottish islands

Re: high tension lead or...?

Post by seagull101 »

2 small screws on the top in the holes on either side of the coil, 2 screws on the bottom of the baseplate (these are often a challenge to remove) then remove the studs that hold the ht lead retainer on.

Hope this helps

Jacob
deacon bruce
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:13 pm
Location: Boston USA

Re: high tension lead or...?

Post by deacon bruce »

Thanks!

And then soldering? Is this fussy? What size wires involved- small?

Pics would help.
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seagull101
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:30 pm
Location: Scottish islands

Re: high tension lead or...?

Post by seagull101 »

The soldering part is easy enough, will try to get pics tomorrow.
deacon bruce
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:13 pm
Location: Boston USA

Re: high tension lead or...?

Post by deacon bruce »

My problem is how to remove flywheel that is stuck tight. I know someone should hold flywheel while another whacks craknshaft nut. Tried, but nothing gives. Afraid of harming crankshaft, etc. Could heating flywheel help?

Also have a ruined crankcase and crankshaft assembly with breakerless CD ignition- previous owner blew up engine by overspeeding in a barrel test. Would like to use this ignition assembly to replace current Villiers. Looks to be simple swap. But same flywheel removal problem.

Once flywheel removal solved, a basic question: Is this a possible/advisable swap?
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