Saving Old Seagulls

Hoping to work on Villiers coil in Mark 1 ignition but cannot remove flywheel. Tried prescribed way- one person holding flywheel, another striking dome nut. Perhaps someone over torqued flywheel nut at one time, tightening flywheel on crankshaft taper too much. Will heat on flywheel help loosen it? Other methods for removing flywheel?

Try soaking the top of the crankshaft with some penetrating fluid and leave it for a few days before you use the "lift and hit" method. Only as a last resort would i use heat.

If you're lucky you might find that several tap tap taps work better than one heavy blow.(i use a sacrificial flywheel nut that i don't mind if it gets bashed out of shape as long as the threads are good)

Little tip here, with the flywheel nut removed you'll see a nice indentation right at the top of the crankshaft. Get yourself a ball bearing that will rest directly into this depression and re-fit the flywheel nut over the top. This way will direct more force straight into the crankshaft/taper rather than through the threads of the nut/crank itself. Works every time for me. Never had one i couldn't remove single handed using this method.

Jon

thats a good idea Jon, never thought of that! I do have a coolie flywheel puller though which works a treat!

what is a coolie flywheel puller?

A coolie flywheel puller, is used to remove early flywheels, also seen on early motorcycle ignition flywheels.
A coolie flywheel, the inner ring is threaded.

If you go onto the main site & look on the spare parts for sale pages, a picture of the Marston (coolie hat/JM) flywheel pullers will be found!

Is there any likelihood of those pullers becoming available again?

I spoke to him yesterday about this situation.

Provided there is sufficient interest is the answer, John has to buy these in quantity to lower the price, waiting years to break even, doesn't make a lot of economic sense!

Pre-ordering might well speed things up!

Yep, i need one of these now although i have to admit in the past i've removed them with the "lift and hit" method with no ill effects.

Nothing stopping anyone that's handy with a welder to make one though. Finding the right parts to make it from might be a bit tricky though.

But a coolie flywheel puller is NO GOOD for a mk1 villiers flywheel though.
Penetrating fluid left to soak for a few days will help. So will the extra pair of hands from a helper.
Try the ball bearing trick, works for me every time. All of the shock loading is directed straight onto the top of the crankshaft via the ball bearing instead of through the threads inside the nut or on the crank itself.
Once you've got it off it will be easy to see where it was stuck in the first place. A light rub with emery paper on each of the tapers usually does the trick, although i like to re-lap both tapers with some valve grinding paste (with the woodruff key removed). Leaves a lovely finish to both tapers and will come apart beautifully the next time with no dramas at all.


Jon

I don't understand Jon, where does the welder fit in?

Make a flywheel puller by welding different bits and bobs together so that it resembles a typical coolie flywheel puller.

Jon

Measure the flywheel thread & let me know where to find some, that would make life a lot easier.

Im sure the thread is on here somewhere. I don't have thread gauges otherwise id measure mine.

The tapers are precision ground to size, dressing with emery paper will destroy the fit and is a bodge and possibly a good way to scrap your crank. I would suggest cleaning up the tapers by lightly rubbing with 1500 grit wet and dry soaked in WD40.
It’s a non standard thread, so new ones have be specially made on a lathe. That said of course you can see that these have been knocked up by welding a few bits and bobs together...

Oyster and others.

Before i get any more bad press about this, can i just say how i lap 2 tapers together on a seagull crank.

With the woodruff key removed from the crank i smear a little valve grinding paste over the crank taper. Then i place the flywheel onto the crank.
The weight of the flywheel alone is enough here so i wouldn't apply any extra downward pressure. Just like you'd lap a set of valves in a cylinder head spin the flywheel back and forth in the palm of your hand till you can hear some of the grit in the paste no longer making any noise, lift the flywheel off the taper and resit back down again and re-spin. Lift off the flywheel periodically to check how both surfaces are looking. 2-3 mins is normally more than enough to get a very nice finish on both tapers.
As both tapers (crank and flywheel) are being re-lapped at the same time they both get re-finished to the same taper (whatever that might be) so very little need to worry if they're getting out of true.This process just tidies up any unwanted rust spots or rough edges or slight burrs, and to some extent "trues" the tapers. After a thorough cleaning, reassemble in the normal way.This i've done on countless seagulls before with absolutely nothing to worry about. Not one of my cranks has been wrecked from doing this, and if anything makes flywheel removal an absolute breeze the next time. I would carry out this procedure especially if a flywheel from a different engine is being used in the rebuild, and let's face it, there's no harm in getting things to fit just right the first time. As for being a precision ground/ cut item, i'm sure there's others out there that won't agree. They're alright, but i wouldn't say they're perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
This could be another reason why we keep getting asked why some folks flywheels don't come apart like they're supposed to. Allowing for time and corrosion to do their thing, the only other variable is with the tapers.
I just thought i'd clear that up, and in no way do i "BODGE" anything up. (that's got me rather pissed off Adrian i have to say)


Not quite what i was thinking of with pullers, but i know of a few folks out there that have made their own by welding together the correct threaded bolt onto a length of larger od hexagonal tube (ideal for use with adjustable spanners ) into which a conventional right handed thread has been cut and a conventional bolt inserted. Takes about 10 mins to make with minimal hand tools as long as you can get the right bits together. So simple to use with a more "agricultural" look about them. That sort of thing would probably appeal to a lot more folks rather than a fancy and expensive looking bit of kit turned on a lathe.
Can't be that hard to knock up surely!!!