It is available as water slide.
(photobucket is irritatingly complicated)
Correct decal for tank rebuild?
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
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rosbullterier
- Posts: 710
- Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:23 am
- Location: Cornwall UK
Correct decal for tank rebuild?
I understand this was the decal used on the late 40's tank. What do you think of its authenticity?
It is available as water slide.
(photobucket is irritatingly complicated)
It is available as water slide.
(photobucket is irritatingly complicated)
Hmm,
This one appeared on the Little Model Forty in 1949. The 102 series followed suit, after all the existing stocks of the earlier decal (the rather nicer one) were exhausted.
So the strict answer is, yes, that would be the correct style.
The lettering isn't very good, and the yellow beak and feet of the original have on this example shared the beige of the lettering, which should of course be gold. The lettering itself is a little inaccurate, and the additional lines that render a 3d appearance are perhaps a little overdone.
I believe I can be critical about this one, as the pattern from this very decal is, I fancy, taken from a set of drawings I concocted a couple of years ago. I photographed an original, printed a computer generated outline onto A3, traced it and scanned the results. The drawing was never to my satisfaction, but on request I let a chap up North have a digital copy. I did get a sample back, but at the time this was obviously a work in progress. The dimensions were way off, and the detail needed work.
It's still at that stage I feel.
Whilst good examples from which a copy can be made are scarce, there is a way to go before these are ready for the market. I have only today been discussing decals with John, and I have every confidence that he will be able to offer replicas in the not-too-distant future.
Size is everything in this matter, and I urge you to leave your tank plain and unadorned aginst the day when a proper decal is available.
This one appeared on the Little Model Forty in 1949. The 102 series followed suit, after all the existing stocks of the earlier decal (the rather nicer one) were exhausted.
So the strict answer is, yes, that would be the correct style.
The lettering isn't very good, and the yellow beak and feet of the original have on this example shared the beige of the lettering, which should of course be gold. The lettering itself is a little inaccurate, and the additional lines that render a 3d appearance are perhaps a little overdone.
I believe I can be critical about this one, as the pattern from this very decal is, I fancy, taken from a set of drawings I concocted a couple of years ago. I photographed an original, printed a computer generated outline onto A3, traced it and scanned the results. The drawing was never to my satisfaction, but on request I let a chap up North have a digital copy. I did get a sample back, but at the time this was obviously a work in progress. The dimensions were way off, and the detail needed work.
It's still at that stage I feel.
Whilst good examples from which a copy can be made are scarce, there is a way to go before these are ready for the market. I have only today been discussing decals with John, and I have every confidence that he will be able to offer replicas in the not-too-distant future.
Size is everything in this matter, and I urge you to leave your tank plain and unadorned aginst the day when a proper decal is available.
Compared with my NOS FV Tank it looks quite well. Except for the lettering and 'Jewish' beak.
I measured the length of text on my tank. Total length of 'British' is 68mm. and 'Seagull' is 64mm.
Nice desktop picture!
I measured the length of text on my tank. Total length of 'British' is 68mm. and 'Seagull' is 64mm.
Nice desktop picture!
Last edited by Jan on Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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timberman2004
- Posts: 375
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:11 pm
- Location: Lerryn Cornwall
Jan thanks for that photo. I can't post it here because it's a borrowed laptop with few of the facilitie - would you be kind enough to post it? If you would rather keep it for private consumption I will understand.
Jan appears to be quite correct about the gold beak and feet, which is a new one on me. I have checked my photos and mine are a separate yellow, but I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that yet another deviation has come to light.
The letters are, however different. On Jan's example (and mine) the 'perspective' or 'three-d' lines (I'm sure printers and font folk have proper terms) are facing the opposite direction.
Jan appears to be quite correct about the gold beak and feet, which is a new one on me. I have checked my photos and mine are a separate yellow, but I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that yet another deviation has come to light.
The letters are, however different. On Jan's example (and mine) the 'perspective' or 'three-d' lines (I'm sure printers and font folk have proper terms) are facing the opposite direction.
Decals
A picture of my tank, not the best 
And a decal that i got of ebay last year.
And a decal that i got of ebay last year.
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rosbullterier
- Posts: 710
- Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:23 am
- Location: Cornwall UK
That is very interesting to see which engines really have which decals, although the decal affixing woman could obviously have used whichever there were left at the time.
My little collection of 102's start with a 'D' and an 'AC', neither which begin the journey back from where you gentlemen have started but I do have other (marine) interests in life.
The only decals I have seen pictured before the sailorman were the bird inside the ribbons saying 'British Seagull' and the lone Seagull in the pic which as I stated is available.
Yes there are others which have been subject to discussion concerning which way the gull is looking, but these two seem to be the only ones on original tanks on internet pics portrayed on Seagull sites.
The Seagull inside the 'British Seagull' ribbons apears to be correct for the era for my two older engines, but then I have seen the other one with a vague relevence for the same time, in spite of Charles P's assertions it only is for the little 40 tank and not for a 102. The only picture I have seen of it was a close up without the surrounding tank in scale.
What further confuses me is the flywheel legend including 'in the World' which is shown on Jan's engine where I thought this was only produced for one year on the AC.
So I'm still not sure whether both my tanks should have the bird inside the 'British Seagull' ribbons or either the other one and the other, both which are available on water slide.
I live in darkest Cornwall which is light years away from Poole and other areas in the south east where the font angle being a half a degree from authentic matters as long as the overall decal is the right size, would be correct for the age variants and even better - different to the other one.
These decals are produced by, I understand, Johns supplier. John may have some other decals decals available shortly when details are agreed, so I look forward to then.
My little collection of 102's start with a 'D' and an 'AC', neither which begin the journey back from where you gentlemen have started but I do have other (marine) interests in life.
The only decals I have seen pictured before the sailorman were the bird inside the ribbons saying 'British Seagull' and the lone Seagull in the pic which as I stated is available.
Yes there are others which have been subject to discussion concerning which way the gull is looking, but these two seem to be the only ones on original tanks on internet pics portrayed on Seagull sites.
The Seagull inside the 'British Seagull' ribbons apears to be correct for the era for my two older engines, but then I have seen the other one with a vague relevence for the same time, in spite of Charles P's assertions it only is for the little 40 tank and not for a 102. The only picture I have seen of it was a close up without the surrounding tank in scale.
What further confuses me is the flywheel legend including 'in the World' which is shown on Jan's engine where I thought this was only produced for one year on the AC.
So I'm still not sure whether both my tanks should have the bird inside the 'British Seagull' ribbons or either the other one and the other, both which are available on water slide.
I live in darkest Cornwall which is light years away from Poole and other areas in the south east where the font angle being a half a degree from authentic matters as long as the overall decal is the right size, would be correct for the age variants and even better - different to the other one.
These decals are produced by, I understand, Johns supplier. John may have some other decals decals available shortly when details are agreed, so I look forward to then.
I don't think I have ever said that the white bird on its own is only fitted to Little Model Forties, it was indeed a 102 decal as well. Check out:
http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/FO ... .php?t=966
Wartime and post war 102 models had the 'Seagull in the ribbons', until about 1949 when the small white bird appeared. This new decal was applied to all the early FV and FVP motors, and most of the LS range. At this time many of the 102s still appeared with 'bird in the ribbon' decals, and mid fifties advertising flyers show the 'bird in the ribbons' on a 102 tank, while earlier boat show photos depict a small white bird.
The 'Best outboard.. ..in...'legend is to be found on motors from the early fifties (51 or 52) for about 2 or three years. These cover plates are not all that common.
Even in Poole I don't want you to think that my comments about the decal are 'finicky'. The one that is available on eBay is not a question of the font being out by half a degree. It is the dimensions that were way way out on the example on my coffee table.
Many of the eBay decals are way out. The ones from John are about as good as you're likely to get.
There are two decals on the bay that are just plain fanciful. One is a White Seagull in a round border. I have never encountered such a logo. The other is a plain gold sailorman. I have never encountered one of those either.
http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/FO ... .php?t=966
Wartime and post war 102 models had the 'Seagull in the ribbons', until about 1949 when the small white bird appeared. This new decal was applied to all the early FV and FVP motors, and most of the LS range. At this time many of the 102s still appeared with 'bird in the ribbon' decals, and mid fifties advertising flyers show the 'bird in the ribbons' on a 102 tank, while earlier boat show photos depict a small white bird.
The 'Best outboard.. ..in...'legend is to be found on motors from the early fifties (51 or 52) for about 2 or three years. These cover plates are not all that common.
Even in Poole I don't want you to think that my comments about the decal are 'finicky'. The one that is available on eBay is not a question of the font being out by half a degree. It is the dimensions that were way way out on the example on my coffee table.
Many of the eBay decals are way out. The ones from John are about as good as you're likely to get.
There are two decals on the bay that are just plain fanciful. One is a White Seagull in a round border. I have never encountered such a logo. The other is a plain gold sailorman. I have never encountered one of those either.
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rosbullterier
- Posts: 710
- Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:23 am
- Location: Cornwall UK
Being late at night I can only photograph a 'Gull in Ribbon' on its backing under the desk lamp. I have not yet rebuilt the tank it will grace. Therefore you cannot see much of the bird detail, however the overall layout should be apparent.
A coloured 'Sailorman' decal from the producer of the Ribbon decal was very comparable to John's.
These are the only ones I have seen advertised on Ebay, plus the Whitebird initially illustrated which it seems I can now use on a late 40's 102 tank. I only have two late 40's engines, a D and an AC, and would quite like them to have different illustrations in the line up.
I shall not advertise the source of decals.
A coloured 'Sailorman' decal from the producer of the Ribbon decal was very comparable to John's.
These are the only ones I have seen advertised on Ebay, plus the Whitebird initially illustrated which it seems I can now use on a late 40's 102 tank. I only have two late 40's engines, a D and an AC, and would quite like them to have different illustrations in the line up.
I shall not advertise the source of decals.
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rosbullterier
- Posts: 710
- Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:23 am
- Location: Cornwall UK
