FVs

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Gannet
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FVs

Post by Gannet »

I thought it would be a good idea to start a new topic about as far removed as 170 con rods, in order to show the wide appeal and interest that exists in the Seagull world. 170 con rods is probably a more useful and interesting topic than my chosen one, which is FVs - but here goes:-
1. Are FVs and their close cousins being restored/refurbished and used?
Well, I have been sitting on my hands recently and certainly have not had the opportunity to be pushed along in a FV powered dinghy for well over a year and thus workshop activity has lacked the impetus to get stuck in.
2. Bruce - how is progress with FV2844/3302? Has 3302 been consigned to just bits and not worth restoring, whilst 2844 has been brought back from the dead? I hope 2844 is in fine fettle.
3. Allan - what progress with FV1146? I hope it is up and running. It would be lovely to have such an early FV running again. As you wrote FV1146 would appear to be the oldest known one stamped FV. However VF1065 is in existence and there is apparently no difference in the build of VF or FV. Indeed the Seagulls list indicates that VF or FV was the same. It might have been that the availability of Villiers or Amal carbs was the deciding issue as to when and how they were stamped.
4. There still appears to be only two known 40cc Little Model Forty engines - F201 and F341. Or does anybody know of anymore?
5. Andrew's FV18785 is a recent addition and a very fine one too.
6. Adrian - your old FVP10422 has not been rebuilt by me. FVP10422 is in pieces and looking for a new home. Most of the parts are there. It just needs to be loved and brought back to life. Is anybody interested? Surely during this lockdown is the ideal time for rebuilding it.
Jeremy
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Nudge
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Re: FVs

Post by Nudge »

Lock down, what is lock down.
Us lucky kiwis don't know how good we have it really.
we don't even have the time to look at our seagulls its work work work and no time for play.

Stay safe my friends
"THE KING OF BLING"!
Is it better to over think, than not think at all?
andrew
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Re: FVs

Post by andrew »

FV18785 still waiting for attention! John at SOS has kindly supplied the new cylinder gaskets, which I have learned are different to rest of the 40s. Single piece of hard metal (steel?) with a specific thickness, look thicker than regular copper gaskets by around 1mm, quite a difference actually. Rest of the bits I expect I will need are on the shelf ready to go. Now just need a replacement coil (the expensive part).

Hopefully FV18785 will be my next project in the spring, after I finish attempting the 170 build. Going from newest to oldest motors I own will be a fun change of scenery.
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Charles uk
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Re: FVs

Post by Charles uk »

You should have mention of F1082 somewhere in your notes, we discussed it several years ago, when it was living at my house for a few weeks, during it's delivery to Dorset.

I wanted to cross that one off my list of models I'd not checked out the inside of, but the owner forbade my assault with the BSF spanners!
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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charlesp
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Re: FVs

Post by charlesp »

Guilty as charged, Charles
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Re: FVs

Post by Horsley-Anarak »

Gannet wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:39 am
3. Allan - what progress with FV1146? I hope it is up and running. It would be lovely to have such an early FV running again. As you wrote FV1146 would appear to be the oldest known one stamped FV. However VF1065 is in existence and there is apparently no difference in the build of VF or FV. Indeed the Seagulls list indicates that VF or FV was the same. It might have been that the availability of Villiers or Amal carbs was the deciding issue as to when and how they were stamped.
20180612_184423.jpg
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Hi Jeremy hope you are well. Sorry to say it is still in the corner of the shed, I have soaked it in WD 40 to try to loosen it up, have been dealing with clearing my late Father workshops and trying to sell his steamboat, so have had little time recently.
Have still also got an OA and an ON in bits which need looking at, can not move in shed at the moment.

Must do a Cholsey run when we get rid of this virus, if you are up for it?
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Gannet
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Re: FVs

Post by Gannet »

There is always great demand on out time and inevitable Seagulls are not at the top of the list.
Allan - yes, I am well, thank you. Hope you are too. Clearing out a parent's house or garage is very time consuming and can be a sad task. Hope all goes well with it. My offspring tell me that they will just get the house clearance pepole in and auction the lot!
It's nice to see photographs of FV1146 (I do have the number correct - it's not 1148 is it?). Although it's a very small matter, it is lovely to see an original type transom bracket locking pin with the squashed end. Ones that I have seen have been nickel plated brass.

Charles - No, I haven't overlooked F1082. I had been informed by Charles P that it has an Amal carb and thus is not an FV. I was responding to Allan's was commenti as to whether his FV1146 was the oldest known FV. I will ry to contact Dave, who is, or was. the owner of VF1065. If Dave sees his perhaps he could confirm his ownership and any progress with it.

Andrew - the steel plates that you mentioned are critical to ensuring that corosion of the head and crankcase does not occur. Their primary task is to ensure that when used in conjunction with a very effective sealant, that no water comes in contact with the aluminium head or crankcase. This point, I do not believe this has been understood by a generation or two of strippers (concentrate!) and spanner waving owners when repairing/restoring these Early 40 engines. When inially produced these steel plates (I suspect that they were probably galvanised) were coating with a layer of black sealant. I have notes from CharlesP stating the exact spec. Electrolytic corrosion between the steel studs and the aluminium must be avoided. The design was very sound - except for the consideration of later ill informed 'repairers'.
Good luck with your restoration of FV18785

Bruce - shall I update the record for FV2844/3302?

Any takes for the restoration of FVP10422? Is it worth placing it in the For Sale section?

Jeremy
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Oyster 49
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Re: FVs

Post by Oyster 49 »

Good to hear from you Jeremy, I managed one day sail in 2020 only.

I still think the F/FV/FVP engines are great little engines. I had a clear out last week and found two brand and one used set of steel gasket plates, plus a new engine support lug if anybody is looking for these parts let me know.

My little FV is still on my rack, did think about selling it to make a little space, but I’ve not got around to it.
Gannet
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Re: FVs

Post by Gannet »

Adrian,
Good to hear from you. In respect of sailing, you at least managed one day on board. All I managed was to spend a weekend in early March, scraping the hull and slapping some anti fouling on. Little do I know what was to come.....
Glad FV8222 is safe and sound.
Do you know who might want to restore your old FVP10422? Perhaps you do .....
Your spare engine support lug would be a help to me. Is it the original spec one? ie prior to serial number 10000? This is one which clamps around the lower crankcase, as opposed to the NESL which interfaces with the drive shaft tube.
Yes, steel gasket plates would also be of use to me.
I keep looking at F201 and thinking that I must fit it with the correct Amal carb. Please let me know your helpful plans/ideas on that.

Jeremy
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Charles uk
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Re: FVs

Post by Charles uk »

Adrian/Jeremy I had some new steel gaskets made for the FV's, do you want me to have a look to see if I have any left?

I also had some FV bobbin style thrust blocks made.

Charles
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Gannet
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Re: FVs

Post by Gannet »

Thanks Charles, but I will see whether Adrian has the engine support lug avaiable , which is the part that I am specifically interested in.
I do have a query that you might be able to answer:-
When restoring an FV or FVP, I am very keen to install a good looking, non rusty drive shaft tube, which means having it rechromed. It is an expensive process and so I wondered if a better alternative was to take a very good condition tube from another later model (eg a 40+) and machine the thread on the end. Also of course to machine it to the correct length.
What other later models use tube of the same diameter? (It appears to be 1 1/8") . And which can be machined down to 16.5 " long?
Any technical snag in maching the thread?
Apart from the 40+ SJP what other later models would be suitable?
Thanks,
Jeremy
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Charles uk
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Re: FVs

Post by Charles uk »

The majority of pre 1975 chrome plated Seagull driveshaft tubes are 1 1/8" diameter, anyone with a lathe & the correct screw cutting tips can cut the thread, are they knurled at the crankcase end, it's a long time since I worked on one?

On an ornamental basis making one from a chrome driveshaft tube would be OK, but as you've already explained unprotected machined steel & aluminium touching at the top of the water pump housing i.e. in a very wet location would be a perfect location for galvanic corrosion, that's why they were chromed not painted.

I'd expect to pay around £50 to have a drive shaft tube stripped, polished & re-plated, & you will also have to explain how you want it polished to avoid leaving it undersize where it needs to be a tight fit.
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Oyster 49
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Re: FVs

Post by Oyster 49 »

These are the FV/FVP parts I currently have, all are surplus to my needs currently. Happy to pass them on.

Jeremy, I’ll do you a swap, all these plus my FV which is very nice, for one of your F engines :P
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Charles uk
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Re: FVs

Post by Charles uk »

Jeremy did your database produce any any approximate dates for the water pump housing to drive shaft fitting , the drive shaft tube to crankcase fitting & the engine support lug style changes.
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Gannet
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Re: FVs

Post by Gannet »

Charles,
Thanks for your comments about drive shaft tube and chrome plating. Yes, I have paid in the past £40 to £60 for rechroming the tube. Maybe thats the best thing to do, rather than seek an alternative solution using non FV bits.
i suspect that the cost could be kept down a bit if a batch of say 6 or 10 were processed at one time.
As regards galvanic action at the lower end, I have not seen any evidence of that. Bear in mind that the i/d of the tube has not been plated, so there is plenty of ferrous surface area. But, it doesn't stay wet for very long, unlike the inside of the cylinder block. Plus, and I think this is very impotant, the area of aluminium is very large, so that very local significant galvanic does not occur.
I wish I could say the same about the effect of failing to seal the crankcase of an FV using plenty of sealant on both surfaces of the steel 'gaskets', becuase leaving a small area of aluminium exposed in contact with water and with the large area of the steel stud is a recipe for trouble. It is interesting to note that the lower of the two studs is often the area of worst corrosion. Presumably because water often collects there.
By the way, were your 'gasket' plates galvanised or zinc plated? I suspect from the evidence that I have seen, that the original plates had a surface of zinc. Technically, a very sound idea.

Yes, my data base does provide the info that you wanted about the introduction of changes. I will look it up and let you know the answers.

Jeremy
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