EFPCL Lives!

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sbbloom69
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EFPCL Lives!

Post by sbbloom69 »

I picked up 3 seagulls last summer (1976 Featherweight 40; 1979 EFNR Silver Century; 1985 EFPCL Featherweight 40+ long). The Featherweight has points. Just a quick cleanup (carb, points, gas tank) and it runs. Not perfect yet, but itxpushes my little West Wight Potter P15 nicely. Down a little in HP, since I'm at 7000 ft altitude (Northern New Mexico).

The EFNR had the WIPAC MK iii white CDI (with separate spark coil). Couldn't get it to spark last fall. Tried again today, checking what I could (1.2 ohms primary, 1.4 kilo-ohms HT ). Plug cap was pretty nasty Change the whole wire and plug cap. Still no spark. Covered it up and put it away for a rainy day.

The EFPCL has the Mk IV (brown single modular coil/CDI). Couldn't get spark last fall either. Today, pulled apart the plug cap. Lots of burn and corrosion in the HT lead where the cap connects. I cut it back another half inch until I saw clean copper conductor. I cleaned up the plug cap (the pointed threaded plug cap that looks like a wood sure, screws into the Ht wire). JOY! Spark returns. Spent the next 3 hours pulling bits off the EFNR carb to repair the carb on the EFPCL. Both are Amal. The plastic fuel hose banjo fitting was cracked on the EFPCL. The EFNR had a metal spacer in it's connector but the gasket rings were dried out and cracked. I made 2 new ones. Soaked the cork tank petcock in some 2-stroke mix for an hour wile i was working the carb. The cork swelled up enough to make an almost tight seal.

Put it all together, replaced the oil in the gearbox. Set it up on my test tank. Made some 25;1 mix (what service manual called for for 1985 EFPCL). 2nd pull and IT RUNS. Runs great. Great water flow, much more than my Featherweight 40, which I'll have to descale and back flush again. This is a long=shaft, so I'll have to make a board extender for the fixed outboard mount on my potter to get the height correct for the engine. Or, I'll make one of those 1" diameter collars to raise the prop to the right height. So. I now have 2 running 40's: one short shaft with points. The other a long shaft with CDI and a recoil starter.

Now my question about my EFNR: There is an older seagull (60's vintage) SJP27054L top end (engine with flywheel) on Ebay. If I get it, can I "retro-fit" the old points plate, coil, and flywheel from this older seagull to the EFNR engine? If so, this may get me the engine running. At least until I can find a Wipac III (getting even more rare) or make the CDI repair attempt (I've dug into a motorcycle CDI before, exposing and replacing the condenser, SCR, diodes, and resistor from the potting. Not for the faint-of-heart).

Anyway, can I revert the EFNR back to an older points ignition if I have the plate, coil, points and flywheel?

Finally wheres the best place to get:
Flywheel nut (lost one)
Amal carburetor plastic fuel hose carb fittings (2 sets)
plug caps for the 4mm HT spark plug wires.
Recoil starter replacement rewind spring (was missing from my EFNR)

Stu
Los Alamos, NM
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Oyster 49
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Re: EFPCL Lives!

Post by Oyster 49 »

Hello Stu, good to see you are enjoying yourself. The FNR engines are great, and handy with the reverse gear. I believe the older ignitions will fit, I'd recommend the wipac rather than the villiers, as villiers coils do tend have a life limit..new villiers ones are available made with modern materials though.

You can get your spares from John Williams at SOS who provides this forum for us. He will ship to most places, and give very good advice too. He may well be able to provide a replacement CDI or earlier magneto for you too. Drop him a line and have a discussion. john@saving-old-seagulls.co.uk

Re back flushing, don't bother, the only real way to make your cooling system good is to remove the head and clean out the waterways using a long, thin screw driver and hammer to gently chip out the crud.

7000 feet, I'm gasping for air just thinking about it!
sbbloom69
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Re: EFPCL Lives!

Post by sbbloom69 »

Hey (didn't catch your first name) ,

Thanks for the reply. I've worked with John before, last fall when I got these 3 motors. He has pointed me in the right direction several times. This is a wonderful website. I was reluctant to pull the head to access the cooling jacket because of the wrung-off bolt horror stories I've read. BSW fasteners can be hard to get over here. I guess if I order the bolts, the head gasket (I'm assuming copper + some kind of sealer that I read about), and anything else up front, I could get the job done in a weekend. In a pinch, I've successfully re-annealed copper gaskets for re-use, but I probably shouldn't do that if I get the stuff up-front. I at least have a set of BSW wrenches (spanners) now. I think I will spring for the sockets too.

I don't really have a boat for the EFNR. It's a little big for the Potter 15. But, I've seen some big motors on modified outboard mounts on several potters, so who knows? Sailing in our reservoir lakes out here in the American west can get spirited with the changing winds. With my bigger sailboat (sold last year when I got the Potter and the motors), I had a late 70's Honda 7.5hp 4-stroke with a shifter. Gliding into and out of the limited dock space was easy with forward, neutral, and reverse. With the Featherweight 40, I had to be quick starting and stopping it. It will be a little easier with the EFPCL since it has a clutch. The Potter gets blown around easy, so I have to plan my dock approach carefully. The American Potter 15 was specifically built for short-shaft outboards, so the smaller Seagulls work great. The long shaft is way too long. That's why I have to fabricate a motor mount extension, or get the tube adjusting clamp for the Seagull (raises the power head up 8 inches to get the gearbox at the right water level.

I enjoy the old motor restoration (actually resurrection, since I usually just get them good enough to run and use) as much as using the equipment. I've also restored some old generators (Lighting Plants, as they were called). I'm an electrical engineer by day, and I don't mind the challenge of repairing old electrical / electronic gear (motor/generator windings, ignition systems, radios, etc). I'd love to find an old stationary engine (gas, diesel, steam, etc) to restore. My wife wouldn't. But, I keep telling her that this hobby keeps me at home and away from bars and golf courses!

Thanks again for the information.

Stu
Los Alamos, NM
headdownarseup
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Re: EFPCL Lives!

Post by headdownarseup »

Hi STU

Welcome to the "madness" that is Seagulls!
I'm about half way through a resto on an EFNR myself. Nice motor and should work great on my 17 foot grp day cruiser.
With trying to get an older points magneto to retro-fit onto a motor that would have had a cdi ignition, something worth remembering is that not all the crankcases are drilled for the baseplate clamping screw that secures the baseplate to the top crankcase half. (i only came across this when pulling my efnr powerhead apart last year) If yours has already been pre drilled then no problem. Everything else is fairly straight forward on these motors.
As Adrian (oyster) has said, the very best way of ensuring good waterflow through the waterjacket is to remove the head (not as scary as it sounds provided you have a blow torch close by) and have a poke around inside with a small screwdriver or similar. You might be surprised at how much crud actually comes out when you do this.

And your longshaft 40 motor is actually a 40plus with clutch (not featherweight) The identity is in the serial number

E for electronic ignition
F for 40 series motor
P for plus sized gearbox
C for clutch
L for longshaft

Give John a ring as he's normally very reasonable for parts on most things. If he hasn't got what you need, one of us will jump in i'm sure :P

Best of luck


Ooh, did we mention we like pics on here :P


Jon
sbbloom69
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My Seagulls

Post by sbbloom69 »

Here are the motors as I got them last fall. The EPCL is with the flywheel and starter off. I have to go take a photo of it on my boat tonight. The water photo is where I sail most often, Lake Abiquiu, NM. I hope I haven't used up too much BW with these big pix.

Stu
Attachments
Lake-Abiquiu-NM-USA.jpg
EPCL.jpg
EFNR.jpg
FW40.jpg
FW40-EFNR.jpg
sbbloom69
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Re: EFPCL Lives!

Post by sbbloom69 »

The 40 came with the Potter 15. The owner was going to junk the EFNR, so he gave it to me for free. The EPCL I paid about $60 US. I don't think the EPCL has seen more than 2 or 3 hours of service. All of the paint is still on the prop. I've since put about $75 for parts, consumables, and a set of BSW spanners. The rest is my time. I think I did pretty well.
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Oyster 49
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Re: EFPCL Lives!

Post by Oyster 49 »

You did very well there, a lot of engine for your money 8)
sbbloom69
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Re: EFPCL Lives!

Post by sbbloom69 »

Pix of the EFPCL on the back of my Potter. It has the brass tank off my FW40. The FW40 has the spare tank that came with the EFPCL (I was too lazy this weekend to put the right tanks back on the right motors). The brass tank was really clogged up with 17 years of stale gas/varnish. The EFPCL's original tank is on my FW40. I finished cleaning it this weekend and put it on the EFPCL so I could test it. I also had to put the recoil starter from the EFNR on the EFPCL since the EFPCL's starter was missing the recoil spring. I'll put everything right again once I get some more spare parts. I'm going to fully restore the Featherweight 40. The tank, although has a few light scratches and the decal is faded, has absolutely NO dents or dings.

BTW. I was thinking, that if the recoil spring is not available, could one be fabricated from some thin spring steel,say from an electrician's wire snake?

Finally, from the photo's you can see that the long-shaft is 8 inches too long for the Potter. I saw some accessory photos for the seagulls that use a clamp on the 1" driveshaft tube to raise the motor in the steering clamp. Are they available? recommended? Can I just fabricate a spacer that clamps between the power head collar and the steering clamp to raise it? I would be a little worried about crushing the drive tube or scratching the chrome. Otherwise, I'll just build a bolt-on extension to the boat's motormount. I'm eventually going to replace the fixed mount with an adjustable scissor mount like I had on my Macgregor. That way I can get the motor completely out of the water.

Stu
Attachments
British Seagull EFPCL 40+ Long Shaft 1985
British Seagull EFPCL 40+ Long Shaft 1985
British Seagull EFPCL 40+ Long Shaft 1985
British Seagull EFPCL 40+ Long Shaft 1985
sbbloom69
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Re: EFPCL Lives!

Post by sbbloom69 »

One more thing (I did put in my first post). I had to take some parts off of the EFNR for the carb / tank. Both the EFNR and EFPCL use the Amal carb. The Amal carburetor on the EFPCL has the plastic angled fitting that connects the hose to the carb. It was all split and cracked and the hose was real stiff. I'm looking at replacing them, if I can find them. Otherwise, I'll have to fabricate one out of brass or aluminum on my lathe and adapt it to the hose and fitting on the tank. I found a partially machine elbow fitting at the local hardware store that has the correct diameter to fit on the the side of the Amal carb. I would have to cut it down about 1/16" and drill a hole through the elbow for the mounting screw. The other female threaded port will connect to a hose barb fitting. I could then adapt new hose to the hose going to the tank.

Of course, I would rather just replace it.

Stu
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Oyster 49
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Re: EFPCL Lives!

Post by Oyster 49 »

Most if not all of these parts are available, John has most things. The raising blocks are often on ebay but John might also have them. If not I find a jubilee clip can be used to raise the engine up on the shaft.

You can also fit the villiers carb to your FPC, loads of those around.

Sounds like a box of bits will be heading your way soon from SOS.
sbbloom69
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Re: EFPCL Lives!

Post by sbbloom69 »

I just phoned Sean at britishseagull.com in San Franciso, CA. He was out for the day, so couldn't ask about the parts he carries. His website has a parts list with costs. He seems to have everything I need, if I want to pay the price. Apparently, the shipping costs will be much lower and may offset any savings I get by buying used from the UK. I'll just have to price things out. Given a preference, I'd like to support John and the others here at SOS, since you are all the reason I've gotten as far as I have.

I finally read up on the "depth adjusting collar". I guess over the years alloy collars and plastic collars with bolts or wing nuts have been used. So, a split piece of 1 inch I.D. PVC cut to the correct length and 2 worm gear clamps (Jubilee Clips) will be just fine. I was worried about scratching or damaging the drive tube. I guess it won't be much of an issue if I just keep it clean of grit.

About the Amal 416 carbs, a replacement fuel hose with the fittings (CBN04014 FUEL LINE ASSY AMAL416 CARB) is $23 plus shipping from the US supplier (Sean). I guess that's not too bad, considering. But when I start a resurrection/restoration on a piece of hardware that I got for free, I try and challenge myself to see how few "new" parts I have to buy to get it running (i.e. I'm a cheap-skate, miser, a..h.., choose your own word). So, I was going to try and modify some brass plumbing fittings or turn some aluminum or brass on the lathe and make a new carb fuel fitting and just use hose and small jubilee clips. We'll see. I'm already going to spend about $75 on other stuff, so the extra $23 isn't that bad.

I've had some acquaintances comment on "why" I punish myself with these projects. Not only do I enjoy the challenge of resurrecting abused or otherwise dead machinery, I love getting a "rise" out of the environmentalists amongst my friends by restoring and USING a 2-stroke outboard with 25:1 or 10:1 fuel mix. Some have their nice new boats with 4-stroke Honda's or Tohatsu's that are "good for the environment". Hypocrites. I sail a sailboat and use the motor only when I have to. But, I don't begrudge anyone who has a powerboat, dingy, cruiser, etc. I was raised 5 miles from the ocean in South Florida and spent 11 years in the US Navy. I miss the ocean terribly. Anytime I can get on water with anything that floats, I'm happy.

Well enough ranting. Thanks again for all of the tips.

Stu
sbbloom69
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Re: EFPCL Lives!

Post by sbbloom69 »

Oops. I had one more question.

I saw in my Seagull Service Manual (titled British Seagull Mechanic's Manual, a real hard copy one with the blue plastic notebook cover!) that the Villiers and Amal carbs can be adjusted for altitude.

Should I make the altitude adjustments? I sail at 7000 feet altitude. I have 5 older carbureted motorcycles and I've had to re-jet some of them. I also leaned out my old Honda 4-stroke outboard. I guess the Amal carbs have an adjustable needle clip? maybe a main jet change? I lose 16% horsepower no matter what I do (that is the consequence of 11.2 psia versus 14.7 psia (580 torr versus 760 torr) atmospheric pressure here.

Also, the manual talks about running a little more oil in the mix (it said to run 20:1 versus 25:1 on the later engines) I can't see running anything thicker than 10:1 on the older motors.

Opinions?
Stu
Michael
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Re: EFPCL Lives!

Post by Michael »

Stu,
Re the stiff fuel line on the EFNR - I grind the crimp fitting off of each end then pull the hard hose off. You can then replace the fuel line with stuff from your nearest auto parts store. Under the stock black fuel line are barb fittings on either end. Of course it will not look original, but is far cheaper than buying the exact replacement. The plastic angle fitting on the 416 carb (called a banjo) you can get from John at SOS. They are pricey and are usually cracked by people tightening the screw too much of not installing it properly,ie at an angle and then they tighten screw to try to stop the leak... or the gasket is bad and they feel screw tightening will stop the leak. Gte a new fitting and gasket and tighten just enough so it is snug and not leaking. Basically they are crap fittings, but if you are careful with them, they work just fine.
Last edited by Michael on Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
headdownarseup
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Re: EFPCL Lives!

Post by headdownarseup »

Nice to know i'm not the only tight one here :lol:
Make do and mend with everything, UNLESS you absolutely have to buy new.
Recycle and re-use others call it.


Jon
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Charles uk
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Re: EFPCL Lives!

Post by Charles uk »

If John can't help you with a new recoil starter spring, PM me I have some new ones, I was saving for my race motors as I believe they are no longer available, but try John first.

John will also have a recon white CDI which will probably be the cheapest & easiest repair option.

If you increase the lube percentage you will lean out the fuel/air ratio due to the increased viscosity.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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