New member- which seagull?

[penobscot14]

Hi

I am a newbie- just signed up yesterday- why- because I need a small auxiliary outboard motor for my boat- why a Seagull- I need something light, simple, easy to maintain, and not Japanese. And dare I say slightly off-beat.

I guess my first question is how does one choose which model- there must be some obvious parameters like boat size and so on.

Let's start with the obvious- my boat is a Penobscot 14 (hence my name) which is at the stage of being a complete hull standing on its beam ends in may garage. I want to get it sorted this winter at least as far as being a rowing dinghy with a motor for low-speed pottering around next summer, and then fit it out with its sailing gear next winter using the same motor as a back up in case the wind fails. That's the plan.

The boat itself is obviously 14 feet LOA, a bit less at the waterline, built from ordinary pine with marine ply planking. It should weigh about 150 lb when complete, and usually carry no more than 2 adults and 2 children.

I am not too fussy about the engine from an originality or historical point of view, I'll leave that to the aficianados.

Can anyone advise me on the best engine? Thanks in advance.

[headcase]

Hi Andrew,
the Seagull owners handbook suggests the 40 plus models for sailing dinghies and as stand by power for high speed runabouts up to 15 feet.
It then goes on to say that the Century models are suitable for heavy workboats and day sailers up to 17 feet so a 40 plus should do the job unless you sail in an area with strong tides.
Steve

[Colin]

Hello Andrew.

Welcome to the SOS forum. You've certainly come to the right place for British Seagull information.

"Off-beat", I'm not sure about that, although, as the words on the flywheel state, it really is "The Finest Outboard Motor for the World" and many of us here can attest to that after decades of constant use.

The following link may help you decide and further reiterate what Steve said regarding the engine model and size for your boat.
http://www.britishseagullparts.com/engine-boatsize.htm

[CatiGull]

In a height of Colonial Arrogance I assumed Penebscot was referring to the river in the state of Maine, which is very tidal of course...silly me.

My Forty and Forty plus both serve as kickers for my Island 17 which weighs 200 kg roughly.
This is on the Hudson river which runs 2-3 kt tides

[penobscot14]

Thanks guys, I'll follow up on the site Colin quoted.

The boat was designed by a New Zealander called Arch Davis who is resident in Maine, and he did indeed name it after one of the local rivers. Next time you get to see "The hunt for Red October" watch out for the river where they hide the sub.

As for tides, I admit I'd not though of that. I suspect the primary use for the boat will be in the English Lake District, however someone did write a book once called "We never meant to go to sea".

Can someone explain shaft length, as in long and short, please?

[CatiGull]

Andrew - the shaft length refers to the depth at which the propellor ends up below the engine case, if you will.

You should measure your transom and decide where you want to mount your motor, then merasure down to the waterline (loaded) and then choose the correct length.

THere are two things important on a Seagull wrt shaft length..

1 The exhaust should be roughly 2 inches below water to provide the correct back pressure for easy starting

2 THe propellor should not cavitate when you move forward and lift the motor

As I found on my Island 17, it can be tough to prevent number 2 above. I run both short and long shaft versions on that boat depending on weather. TO start the long shaft, I have to tip it up a bit to get the back pressure down.

[CatiGull]

Andrew - here is a recent link CLick here to the short/long shaft measurement for your reference

Cheers

[John@sos]

For your 14ft boat the Forty Plus would be ideal.. British Seagull suggested it was suitable for craft from 10 to 14ft long, but many have tham on slightly larger boats to good effect. 16 to 18ft not uncommon.
Just get the transom heigth right, 15" for standard. 20" for longshaft!

Incidentally still got a virtually new FP, with clutch, longshaft for sale!!

It is the waterline length of the boat that will determine the max speed you will go at, measure it in Metres, on the Waterline, that will be approx the speed in knots and the hp needed. works well enough for displacement boats up to about 30ft!

One of my customers has an old Essex Sailing Smack, 100 years old, 30 plus ft long, 24ft on the waterline, No inboard, but with a Kingfisher 6 on the stern! Calm waters only though!

Regards,
John
SOS

[penobscot14]

Thank you all for your replies.

The transom height is 26 inches (measured vertically, not on the face of the transom) to the bottom of the deadwood, and 20 inches to the bottom of the hull proper/ where the deadwood is attached. Please excuse the lack of appropriate terminology. I don't know where the waterline of the boat is it's not shown on the plans and the boat is still firmly on dry land but I assume that a bit above the top of the deadwood would be about right- so it looks like I need a long shaft.

If the LWL is 4 metres I need a 4 hp motor and we can chug along at 4 knots- sounds good to me.

Is a recoil starter a good idea?

[John@sos]

Many have the wrong idea of transom height so you are not alone.

Seagull and all other Outboard manufacturers use the same system...

It is the measurement from the top of the outboard mounting on the transom, down to the WATER!

I bet the back end of your boat's stern will be beneath the water! You will not be able to see the deadwood!

Standard 15" long 20"

Is a recoil a good idea?

Yes I suppose they are, so many engines have them they can't all be wrong. Saves a few seconds rewinding the string.....

But the joy of the early Seagulls is their simplicity. Any bit of string with a knot in it will start it, and so long as the crew ducks they don't get whipped too often!

Hope that helps,

Regards,
John
SOS

[charlesp]

That's a point - the whipping of crew.

At least one of my crew ladies enjoys a a good whipping. The recoil starter deprives her of that pleasure; so on the whole they're a bad thing...

[headcase]

Whats her phone number Charles?

[CatiGull]

My Island 17 measures 22 inches from top of transom to bottom of keel - I can run a standard shaft on a mount on the transom, or a longshaft FP with a mount on top of the transom, like so:

[john hartnett]

Hi
I agree the 40+ would be a good match. I use one on a 17.5' Precision (18) that weighs 1100 lbs. empty on a modest current river mostly. The 40+ pushes it close to hull speed---I've also got a Silver Century Plus that I've used for years (knicknamed the barge pusher) It pushes the Prescision a little faster but is more power and especially weight than needed or desired. The 40 plus has significant practical thrust and should push your boat fine in all but the most powerful current.
Good luck
John

[penobscot14]

Thank you all for your inputs.

John, I must have explained myself badly- I expect the deadwood to be underwater hence my measurement to the WL is 20 inches. So I need a long shaft. As for the starter, hopefully the motor is only for occasional use so a recoil doesn't sound that important. 'Nuff said about bits of knotted rope!

It looks like a 40+ is the way to go.