Saving Old Seagulls

I saw the label, the instruction book, I noticed how good the tank looked, I also noticed it has signs of being repainted, I noticed how far away from me it was and how many questions had been asked about it, I was still tempted to bid on it when I saw it at 70 odd quid, but I didn't
am I an addict? am I doomed

Charles

Don't you worry about coils.
I've got this kind of stuff well sussed.


Jon

Pleased to hear that Jon.

What effect do you reckon the design differences between the JM & the Mk1 baseplate styles will have on the replacement Mk1 coil?

Congratulations Seagull101 on owning the most elite of Seagulls. That motor has some nice original features including the fabric sheathed throttle cable. A later SD so with a bit of luck it didn't see too much traumatic action. I'll get the questionnaire out to to you for the registry.

Hi hugo,
I assume you want my email address for that or can you do it by PM??

jacob

Hi Jacob,

Correct. If you can pm me your email address and then I'll get the SD questionnaire to you.

Cheers, Hugo.

PM sent to hugo!

Jacob

Good buy, you will enjoy owning a nice original SD There is also another forum member on Skye, who has a SD, Skyetoyman. He lives at Glendale and used to run the Skye Toy Museum. Not heard from him on here for a long time.

Yeah i did see his profile, not been active for more than a year now!

Jacob

I fished out my SD for a quick check earlier. I rebuilt this fully about 6 years ago. This is the engine that got me into vintage outboards in general

I have a skeletal bracket for it, but just need to clean that up and fit the new thumbscrews. Parts are generally available, but expect to have to spend a bit to do it right.

Skyetoyman is a gentleman, it wouldn't hurt to contact him I doubt he'd mind, give it a try.

Yes, he is a great guy, I'm sure he would be able to help you.

What effect do you reckon the design differences between the JM & the Mk1 baseplate styles will have on the replacement Mk1 coil?
Re: SD 102
Post by headdownarseup » Sun May 07, 2017 10:24 pm


Going by my currently stripped down JM magneto, the original coil measures 67mm (between the coil cheeks and not including the exposed core ends) and a diameter of 38mm.
A slightly later MK1 coil measures 63mm (between the coil cheeks) and 35mm diameter.

From this we can deduce that the earlier coils being slightly longer and fatter will have more windings inside them.
The bigger problem comes when trying to retro-fit a non-genuine coil from ebay onto a baseplate that would have had a much longer and fatter coil than can be found today.
So, as H-A found out a couple of years ago, these non-genuine coils are ok (ish) for short periods of time. Any more than that and you're probably going to break down if you intend to use your SD or Marston for more than 5-10 minutes at a time. After a cool down time of maybe 10 mins or so it might play ball again for another 10mins or so. And on and on and on it goes....

It's a small inconvenience to deal with every day, but (quite annoyingly) proper coils are no longer available.
To have an original coil re-wound is often eye wateringly expensive, often way above what most of us are willing to pay just to get another "old dear" going again. Many of us don't have limitless bank accounts these days. So, we cheat a bit!
It's more a case of having to now.
Let's face it, pretty much most of these villiers ignitions are more than likely going to have issues sooner or later. If not now then it will only be a matter of time.

Jon

but (quite annoyingly) proper coils are no longer available.

New replacement 1030 coils to suit the JM magneto ARE available. I fitted one to my SD and it has not missed a beat since. They are not cheap, but they are made using modern materials (Epoxy covered wire) and are much better than the originals.

George at Villiers Parts sells them, as do Villiers Services:

http://www.villiersparts.co.uk/ignition.html

http://villiersservices.co.uk/index.php ... ucts_id=30

There are a huge amount of new manufacture parts available nowdays, including screw type points for JM magnetos.

I wasn't talking about the size differences Jon, as the external size differences makes very little difference to the internal space availability.

It was really about the number of magnetic pulses the JM uses to generate the spark energy, with it's 4 pickup points, twice as many as the Villiers mk1.

It can't be the coil overheating as it wouldn't come back after that, I was rather hoping you had worked out why they fail only to return 15 minutes later, several times.

Unfortunately I don't know of anyone who's performed a full CSI examination of these clone coils to show if there are any design differences apart from external size.

Is there anyone out there using a clone in a JM ignition for more than a test tank run who's not having this problem?

Sorry Adrian you posted as I was typing.

Thanks for that! very useful!

Looking at those links it looks like only the Villierservice's coil is a correct size replacement 1030x16 coil, the Villiers parts one has the core size change collars & is more expensive.