golden oldie 102

[headdownarseup]

from the BS literature at least (not much to go on at the moment but it is something) i've got these waiting to go on.
still trying to get an SD throttle?

interestingly, the transom clamp is from my other AC (about 300 or so earlier in the serial number)

they do exist these "so called bitsa's"

jon

[headdownarseup]

woops
forgot to upload pics?

[Charles uk]

The brass L shaped transom screws to my best recollection were only fitted to the non holy (that's not spelled/spelt right) brass "G"cramps with a cast on number ST 1326-9T , but I've never seen one used in a cast aluminium G clamp, the magneto base plate, polished flywheel, rope sheave & ally cover plate with plated brass nut in the "The General Aspect" looks identical to my ACs, but the multiple grease nipple gear box, long pinion shaft with a grease nipple vented straight out the back water pump housing smacks of Seagull blinging up the art work, as do the braided metal cover on the fuel pipe with the metal 90 degree bend whereas my later fuel pipe has the metal 90 degree end without any evidence of a braided cover, the perfect reflection on the exhaust & drive tube look like the bling artist has been hard at work again.

I think we'll have to ask the other Charles to search through his mountain of paper work to see if there are any hard copy details of when any of these changes were made, i.e. A in the engine number might mean sub ejector exhaust.

Sorry Mate.

[headdownarseup]

no worries CHARLES

it's all detective work at the moment! dont read too much into ANY OF THIS at the moment.
very much a work in progress.
agreed, wait for the ALL KNOWING CHARLES for input.



jon

[headdownarseup]

CHARLES

after a little bit of faffing around with a magnifying glass and a clean rag, GUESS WHAT!
the "g cramps/ c clamps" (call them what you like) have EXACTLY the same part number cast into them. (and these are ali ones?)
you'll have to take my word for it (been trying to take photos of the bloody thing through a magnifying glass and it dont work, too much reflection)

so that's brass/bronze and ali clamps (probably the same casting) have the bent thumbscrews the same as SD'S etc.

i know i know, wait for CHARLES!


JON

[Charles uk]

We have no evidence that SDs were supplied with anything other than the type A & B sidemount brackets during the war.

[headdownarseup]

have a look at my pic again
this time blow it up, you can JUST ABOUT make out the casting number on the underside clamp!

clarify this with what is one the original "general aspect" pics.
could they be the same? (difficult i know because its in black and white)
same numbers as you suggest! still yet to confirm whether the thumbscrews are correct.
but as i said, one thing at a time and we'll get there.

jon

[headdownarseup]

as you suggest CHARLES, the A/B mount are what would have been fitted to SD'S,SDP's during WW2.
how many of us on here have got an A/B mount on our SD's? i havn't because they're rare as rocking horse ****!
however,the accepted other mounts (trying to get hold of something that is near enough age related correct) and perhaps slightly easier to get hold of are these below.
the skeletal bracket (i know you think they're crap, so do i, but they look nice when they're polished up)
or the "hollow version" of the bronze/brass type.(without the holes)
now whether or not you put bent thumbscrews into these is up to the individual (to make it look older than it actually is)
the point i was trying to make was with the ali clamps they do look remarkably similar to whats in the "general aspect" pics. i know its difficult to determine whether the clamps in the black and white pics are made of ali or bronze! but they do look rather shiney to be bronze/brass.

even if we took the "general aspect" pics to be something of a spoof, there must be something in these pics that's more or less right for the age we're talking about, isn't there? braided fuel line for one! which other motor that you know of has a braided fuel line, i can think of 1 , a very early model F and that didn't come along until 1949.
2 years after this motor was made. (have a look at JEREMY's model f 201 i think if you've got any pics of it, looks very similar to me) and i've seen it in the flesh?
much to ponder over i feel

[phil]

Is the drivetube thrust block on the right hand side transom clamp ali or bronze, hard to tell from the photo?

[headdownarseup]

ali same as the one fitted to 3392 at the moment

jon

[headdownarseup]

i've been doing a bit of digging this afternoon around the forum trying to get some answers!
some have been answered, some not?

starting with the SD style gearbox and prop.
looking through much earlier posts using a "key word" search of "sub ejector" and "sd prop" ive come to the conclusion that (according to CHARLES P) the SD box and prop were in production together right up till the end when the (horribly named) "sub ejector" was introduced. i can find nothing (yet) that would suggest a possible date when the change occured (at a guess 53 ish maybe a tad earlier)

transom brackets (c clamps)
according to data that is already known (CHARLES P) 1946/7 102 motors would have worn the "type b" skeletal bracket, there also was a "short lived" bronze and aluminium version (which is what i have on a slighly earlier AC about 300 earlier in the serial number than 3392) probably "short lived" because the one i have has got VERY WORN threads on the thumbscrews (which are bent the same as the black and white photos talked about previously). later clamps were then the "hollow versions" (which in my view are a much better clamp any way)

this next one is very much open to debate?

core plugs and its come in for a lot of talk in the past and i'm sure it will do in the future!
from a topic search "input needed on 102 AD15225" we find a similar 102 (like mine) but slightly later (1952/3) and what do i find?
SLOTTED CORE PLUGS? (again, read into this what you will, anything can happen with a seagull and will give endless hours of confusion i'm sure. it is perfectly possible that the cylinder may (or not) have been changed from original)
there is also mention that the 2 CHARLES are undecided whether hex head core plugs are early or late?

easy way to sort this out.
question: when was the brass gearbox bung introduced (what year) if we are to understand that the gearbox bung ( in brass not nylon/plastic ) is the same as a core plug,
then older motors before this introduction MUST HAVE HAD the hex head plug! (right or not)
also on the same topic (ad15225) you can see what looks like the remains of a braided fuel line with "later additions". (original or not who knows)

fuel tanks
according to the above search (ad15225) this motor wears a screw top tank with ali cap (anything can happen with a seagull and parts get swapped about)
are we to understand that "bayonet" tanks in steel and brass are earlier than screw top tanks? (i think so)
another question
what year was the screw top tank introduced?


going back to an earlier post by OYSTER that the whole lower end might be wrong? (dont think so) not from what i've uncovered so far.

detective work all the way with this one

jon

[Horsley-Anarak]

Good logic, might be worth working back from newer to older, dates on flywheels may help.

I will try and dig out my later AC to log its features.

You need to collect data to see a trend, individual engines can be confusing.

Looks like you may be starting the AC register keep going.

H-A

[headdownarseup]

just trying to make general sense of it all.

lets just wait and see where it takes us!
more pics will help.
any one willing to show their pics?
you show me yours and i'll show you mine ahem

seriously though, if there are what i term as "common parts" to these early 102's we can (as H-A suggests) work backwards from newest to oldest.

jon

[Charles uk]

The aluminium "G" cramps use very different wooden patterns to the bronze ones that had the pattern number on the side of tooling in raised numbers 1/4" high projecting over 30 thou, so the material can be easily distinguished on close inspection of the pictures by the very different profile.

The aluminium clamps should be repaired as very few remain by the use of Helicoils.

[headdownarseup]

does that mean then that i've got something right! (still not quite comfortable with this)

absolutely agree with repairing, was thinking of an alternative repair to the threads along with replacement thumbscrews and washers.

j