Saving Old Seagulls

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/i_ ... m=AC+47401
Ok so thats the engine ...

I am stuck trying to remove pinion grear, driveshaft and impellor ...

any advice appreciated, bar the drive shaft the rest is still in the gear box housing, and it is driving me crazy

driveshaft is in great nick so reluctant to grind it away!

will try to post pics at the weekend, but this is the last part of the dismantle before reconstruction begins!

thanks for reading

Mark

so here are some pictures, perhaps someone can help!

You may be able to see the pinion in the gear box, broken impellor and driveshaft seemingly secured for ever!

Basically I want to take all of the remaining bits apart and it is driving me nuts!, seems welded with the same glue god used to hold tectonic plates together.

Hoping to get the pinion gear off, driveshaft etc out, impellor off so I have component parts, can look at the bearing and get to work making the inside of the gearbox shiny and new (OCD I think!), that and it was seized and not pretty at all so thinki it is worthwhile

hopefully someone can shed some light ....

Best regards

Mark

As I'm always saying one of the best resources to solve a Seagull problem is to use the forum search facility. There is an amazing amount of information in old posts on how other people have solved the problem you find yourself facing. Somebody has undoubtedly been there before for any problem you can name....... !

You can also find masses of information on the main SOS site. If you had worked a little way down the 102 model gallery pages you would have found:

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/i_ ... %20mo1.gif

From this you can see that you need to remove locating screw, item 22, from the rear of the gearbox housing to be able to remove the pinion and surrounding bronze sleeve bearing. This sunken screw is usually difficult to remove and very easy to shear off .....

The drawing shows that the impeller is held in place on the pinion shaft by a solid pin, item 27 , driven through the body.

By far the most important tool you will need is a decent size propane torch.............and a large dose of patience.

The general technique for removing a pinion sleeve bearing starts like this and is accompanied by a sizeable hammer and block of wood to drive the gearbox housing off the sleeve. This was a Forty Plus but the technique is the same.

Note the colour change in the painted surface ........ this needs lots of heat. Forget electric paint strippers and tiny butane torches from B&Q, Home Depot etc. ..........


Peter

Thats great thank you Peter, and for what it is worth I had found the image you posted, just didnt really understand how it comes apart as it seems to be totally solid!

I am a little wiser now, but still can not get the locking pin out (number 22), I just cant see it at all, but I will keep trying. Cant get pin 27 out either, there must be a way to tap them out but I guess I will just need a little luck ...

oh and for heat its been going on an MSR Petrol Stove, it should be hot enough!

I guess the theory I am OK on, need a bit more practical advice!

Thank you again, appreciated

Mark

Item 22 is a screw. It has a plain shank below the head before the threaded section. It is this plain shank section that frequently seizes up solid. If it can't be removed as a working screw and shears the remaining threaded section will have to be drilled out or removed by spark erosion techniques (USA, EDM). The pinion sleeve bearing can not be removed as per my picture until this screw is removed. It may have been a slip of the keyboard on your part but this fixing does NOT tap out! Drilling out a sheared bolt end in this location is best done on a mill or vertical borer; it is not a hand held Black & Decker job unless in desperate straits and marooned on a desert island........ . (You seem to have a similar problem with a sheared front cap fixing.)

Once the pinion, sleeve bearing and drive shaft have been removed as one lump from the gearbox housing you can then move to separate the seized drive shaft and then the remains of the impeller.

The drive shaft, held securely in a bench vice , may succumb to intense heat and a steel rod hammered down the inside. First remove any grease, oil, crud and rust inside the driveshaft tube so that you are actually hammering on the end of the pinion shaft. Failing diesel/ WD40 and patience you may have to cut it off. (Grind away one corner at a time to avoid damaging the pinion and open up the end. It is surprising, when you finally get it apart how little rust was causing such a strong seize!)

The securing pin through the pinion shaft holding the water impeller in place was originally locked by gently peining (peen, USA) the outer face ends over on the factory assembly line.

This item will likely need to be totally drilled out, or at least the ends followed by use of a drift. Copious amounts of propane and holy water or WD40, if a secular workshop, will be certainly be needed. You can then start on getting the mangled water impeller off......... It is strange to see one fail in that way...........how did the impeller fracture?

I don't know which MSR camping stove you propose to use but looking at various models on the www I have to admit to being sceptical that it will be remotely man enough for this job given the amount of metal in a 102 gearbox! It is not the peak temperature but the rate of heat supply that is important here. It may sound flippant but in this sort of restoration/repair work unless you need ear defenders to use your propane torch it is not too big.....

For others about to consider totally stripping down a lower unit it may be, in my opinion, worthwhile considering leaving well alone and using as is unless there is a mechanical failure preventing use. ( On reflection that statement applies equally to complete motors!) Just wash out old grease/oil and replace with new lubricants.

Peter

Brilliant, thanks again, thats the sort of info I was lacking.

And agreed, leave well alone unless in trouble!, this was one seized (motor and gearbox). It is a bit of an adventure taking it apart, and you can tell which part spent more time submerged! Head etc all came apart like it was bolted together yesterday, gearbox is a different story ...

MSR should be ok, sounds like a jet on afterburner at full whack, glows to almost white hot so should do the trick. If it doesnt a few extra pumps on the feul tank should help If not I have a propane torch in the shed somewhere, but am hoping the heat from the msr will be more uniform and diffuse, it has worked previously where propane has failed me!

Impellor was basically rotten, one side had a fracture allready and the rest crumbled with fingers. It was very corroded, and perhaps an indication that the driveshaft would be stuck solid in hindsight.

So on to the job of drilling out the pin I can not reach, I wish bendy drill bits were freely avaiable, although I may go through the housing and fill with quick steel later.

Oh and as for item 22, that one came out weeks ago! Just unscrewed with no problems at all, so at least that is out of the way. It seemed too easy so I guess brute force and heat will be next on the list.

Really am gratefull for the advice.

Mark

ps: agree on the drilll, handhelds into a aluminium housing are asking for trouble ...

markle wrote: So on to the job of drilling out the pin I can not reach, I wish bendy drill bits were freely avaiable, although I may go through the housing and fill with quick steel later.

If you have the sleeve securing screw out then you are in a position to drive the pinion sleeve out. If the impeller remains are as rotten as you say I doubt they will easily slide off after the pin is removed and in any case you will have to remove the drive shaft first. This is most easily done in my opinion with the whole pinion/ bearing/shaft outside the casing. Drilling through the casing to get to the pin only makes more work in my opinion. Should you remove the sleeve take note of the locating dimple for the locking screw and reassemble in the same position and depth. After a good clean up of the sleeve and casing entry with Scotchbright it should easily push back after light application of oil/grease.

Peter