Saving Old Seagulls

There's a wartime 102 on eBay at the moment - item number 280042862271.

Short water jacket, oil nipples on the gearbox, aluminium tank lugs, 'straight out of the back' water pump housing, and with a clutch.

Maybe an SD?

Described as 'Vintage Seagull Silver Century 5.5h.p.-Round Tank' and
'A survivor of the D-Day landings', it has a Wipac magneto and a very late Amal carb. Can't see the top of the tank in the photos. No bracket.

There's a reserve on it

Hi Charles,Can you tell me a bit more about this engine from the engine ,ie whats original and what isnt.I take it the ignition isnt original.
Cheers Steve

Well the code letters etc on the crankcase confirm that it's a wartime SD, and the short water jacket block looks right for that, so do the leg, exhaust, and gearbox. Oh and the propellor. It appears to have a prop spring, which is correct, too. Nice early alloy tank strap lugs - not a lot of those about, and correct for the period.

However :

The ignition is a later Wipac unit from 1968 on - should be the earlier (much earlier) 'coolie hat' Villiers as fitted to the Marstons.

The carburettor is the very late Amal - should be the earlier version (indeed some would argue it may have had the even earlier top feed version)

For the very picky I'd point out that the fuel tap knob is a plated one, the rest of the tap is brass.

The bracket is missing from the photo. The vendor states that he has got a bracket, which he'll sell for the £20.00 that it cost him. In my view it's highly unlikely that it'll be the correct one - which should be what I call the 'skeletal bronze' bracket - see the SD on the British Seagull web site for a picture - http://www.britishseagull.co.uk/history.php

The lug that affixes this bracket to the leg is also absent - the one on there is a later fitting.

The coolant pipes would have been plated copper.

The fuel pipe would have been the plated copper variety.

The wing nut on the tiller arm is missing.

I'm not sure about the throttle - can't see it properly.

And the tank. Hmm. The other Charles and myself scratch our heads and gently agree to disagree about tanks at this period, then we come around to a different disagreement! Suffice it to say that if it's a standard 102 tank ( ie the usual round brass one with a screw filler cap) then that's wrong too. It should have either the earlier bayonet fitting brass tank (similar dimensions), or a steel one as fitted to the Marstons. The one on the BS site (above) has the steel one with a centre filler cap.

Plug cap was originally the bakelite one I suspect.

Can't be sure about the tiller arm - but it should be steel, and it should have a thin black grip on it.

There appears to be some sort of fitting on the upper part of the leg - I have no idea what that is...

The listing has now finished, having failed to reach its reserve. It was bid up to £40.57 before the auction finished; the motor remains unsold.

Hope that helps!

Thank you Charles,I actually e mailed the guy after the auction ended and struck a deal with him.I would like to restore this engine,not to a concourse condition and im not too bothered about it being completely original,as im going to use it but to a good condition useable example.Once i have collected it i shall post some photos if thats ok. I have always wanted a 102 and as i have always owned and worked on 40s and centurys,any information anyone can give me will be greatfully recieved.
Thanks
Steve

Well done...

Any 102 is a quality machine.

Looking forward to the photos!

The first job I always do on a motor of this age is check the water jacket, I have spent hours in the past stripping the whole thing down & cleaning everything only to find when I get to the final preparation on the cylinder that there is a 1" crack in the water jacket that I thought was a casting mark (usually at the spark plug end on the bottom face near the exhaust) meaning the whole jacket is packed with rust & stuff that sticks it together.
Leaving me with a box of clean bits ready for the shelf not the river.

Thank you Charles (both).It now looks like i wont be having the engine after all.After finalising the deal through E bay i now find that the engine has been "sold" to someone else even though i am the winning bidder.
Buyer beware!!

steve66 wrote:After finalising the deal through E bay i now find that the engine has been "sold" to someone else even though i am the winning bidder.

Although it is disappointing to receive such shoddy treatment I would consider it somewhat of a blessing. I doubt that the seller is one to be trusted, including in the description of the engine.

Hi Colin, yes you may be correct, I knew the engine wasnt original,but ive always wanted one of these,i have a feeling you may see it back for sale on E bay broken as spares which is a real shame.

Yes, may be a blessing in disguise.

I despair of eBay, and I increasingly despair of some of the people out there who sell throught it.

I have ranted about this before - so I won't continue.

Is it particularly a short water jacket version you're after, Steve, or just a plain old vanilla flavour 102?

Hi Charles,Im not actively looking for one,this one turned up at a price which was too good to be true and low and behold it was! I just got a bit excited about this one.

My last 102 - still unrestored - came at an excellent price. One of the chaps I sail with picked it up on the beach 300 yards from my house and gave it to me.

Lots of compression, and a fat spark.

Shame about the lack of petrol tank and the forty series bracket, but I thought it would be churlish to complain...

You cant beat that. Do you realise you will get thousands of messages saying someone lost a 102 on a beach in poole now.At least that has restored my faith in human nature

steve66 wrote:You cant beat that. Do you realise you will get thousands of messages saying someone lost a 102 on a beach in poole now.At least that has restored my faith in human nature

In fact I believe the engine to be mine, having been lost by British Railway some years ago while visiting the UK. Thank you I'll await shipment.

Hi Colin, fine, consider it yours once you've supplied me with its serial number and code, and confirmed what part of the 53 mile coastline of Poole Harbour you lost it!

Happy to help!