Saving Old Seagulls

Just a few pics of an engine i bought a few weeks ago.
It was owned by a coventry vicar who had a boat on the isle of Wight,
sadly he died in 1970 and the engine sat wrapped in rags and old carpet in the inspection pit of his garage
around 2000 an old sunbeam motorcycle restorer was given it by the widow, it sat in the corner of his workshop until recently,
now surprisingly he had no idea of the link between sunbeam and seagull and it was sold on ebay
it cost £42, to be honest i would have paid what ever it took.
As far as i know its as rare as it gets, at one time thought to be a typing error, has anyone else ever seen one or owns one?
it turns over has 68 psi with five pulls
no oil in cylinder but a very liberal dose of gt85, i let it soak for a few days first though
it has a massive spark, i test by holding the plug, and nearly left the shed through the roof when i pulled the rope.
Have not started it yet as i tried reverse flushing but only a dribble came out so the head is coming off,
got the nuts off with heat but the head will not move, around each stud it is solid with concrete crud, i have been carefully chipping it out
and now i have a gap i am using vinegar to eat through it,
its very slow going but but seems to be working, the main thing is its very gentle , does any one else know a better way i would be interested.
The studs are 5/16 its dated 10 -9 i take it thats october 49 and they did not see a need to add the 4, its got a blank cover the bore and stroke are
+/_ 44 and 33 mm and it has a 3 blade prop.
now the bad news at sometime in its life it has fell over and the tiller stud was snapped, a very heavy steel bracket was made to attach the tiller on to,
it then bolts on via the front crank case bolts, i think some one had one similar in the past on here.
the bracket was allways left on the boat in the isle of wight so i need to find one, i could kick my self i watched one on ebay a couple of years ago,
it went for £12 and it was only up the road doh!
dave

here they are

Read every thing you can find on the FV & then contact Jeremy.

Hi Dave, i know you've already spoken to Jeremy briefly about this.

I've certainly not seen a VF before now. (still undecided if it is a missprint or not) but from what i understand of these, they're no different to a normal FV.
You're right of course that recently in another topic there is another FV in tasmania that has the same "anomoly" with the tiller attachment!
( Jeremy might know more on this)

Something else i spotted on your pics, but need to clarify.
The gearbox would appear to be a later addition. Normally the water inlets on these are 2 round holes instead of slots?
Carb looks suspicious too (weird inlet cover) Remove the carb from the stub and have a look at the internal bore size. These are normally 7/16", later 40 series motors had a 1/2" carb fitted.
Yes, you do need to look for the correct transom mount for it. (again Jeremy will explain all)

Gently does it with removing the cylinder head on these. The less intrusive methods for removing corrosion the better. Vinegar will work well but takes a while...
I just hope the studs that hold everything together havn't rusted away to oblivion. I bet the waterjacket is full of crud and rusty sludge.

Apart from that, i like it.
any more pics? (we like lots of pics on here)

jon

Yes can't agree more. Jeremy is the man to discuss this motor with. he is the most knowledgable. If it is an original model F, the carb is not right, it should have a small Amal carb. ANyway interesting find, talk to the man and fill us in. we like it

I have just looked a three Little forty crank letter/number stamps and they are not using that font?
The VF1 look different and is heavier to the rest of the stamp, the cut line in the crank case above the letters may indicate it may have been ground back?

hi
interesting isnt it,
the carb is 7/16 no hole in choke or float bowl
the gear box has got the 2 holes but at some time in its past a piece of wire gauze has been bolted into the top hole and covering the bottom hole, it seems the bottom hole has been enlarged to account for this the gentleman i bought it from is 82 and the engine belonged to a life long friend ie the vicar he is sure that it was bought from new, even told me how it would be wrapped up and put in the back of the car to go back and forth to the isle of wight,
now it only had a used life of 21 years and i am more sure of this engines history than any other i own,
i spent a good 4 hours with both him and his wife, he has the most amazing collection of classic motor cycles and even makes his own parts,
the font might look odd because in the pictures it is covered in silver paint, i have noticed that the v is stamped over a mark from tapping out the stud on that side.
quite interesting the carb intake cover, seen them on lawn mowers from that time, i am sure another f or fv a few years ago had the same cover on it, if i remember right the poster was told to to change it because its wrong, maybe a choice of add ons was available back then
we certainly have 2 now, we know so little about these engines at the time, i believe the changes to the bigger studs and cc are said to be at number 1085 so we have now bought this down by 15, the plot thickens
dave

heres some more

thats all the pictures before i cleaned her, i will take some more now she,s cleaned up
dave

Q was possibly the id letter of the man who assembled it, if that system was running the year this was built, no one is still alive that was working there pre 1960's.

For a considerable period of time the final assemblers were paid on a semi piece work basis, if a motor they'd built didn't make it all the way through the test tanks / quality control to dispatch, we're told it came off their wages.

What an interesting find. I have never seen a VF, but the letters that way round certainly appear in the documents and spares lists and what have you.

I don't think there's anything to odd about the typeface of the serial stamping - there have been quite a few different ones an I have 102's from that era with the same.

I agree with Charles about the Q, but as he says everyone's gone now.

I'm not so sure about the "identical to an FV" bit - there were quite a few modifications made in the early part of the "Little Model Forty" story.

I would be most interested to see the tiller attachment in more detail

Well done!

WOW!
Im just in awe of peoples knowledge on seagulls, theres me thinking its just an old english outboard company but you guys seem to take it to a new level. Its much like my friends whom ive ridden with concerning classic British motorbikes, some of them could tell from a nautical mile if a nut or bolt on a bike is out of place regards make and model. Dont get me wrong im not in anyway knocking them or you guys, in fact the opposite as i think its the best way to keep a correct historical record of our engineering past. Finding it all a great read and a good way of building on my own knowledge

Don't get me wrong, it may well be a genuine unmolested motor, if your not the original owner you just don't know.
This is the problem, what transom would it have had, the FV style one, plated or UN-plated or the longer LS style transom.
To be honest it wasn't that long ago that the long lost model F turned up and there are other models still to turn up. Like the F, was it so small a manufacturing run that it didn't deem a mention, plus there are some others that haven't seen the light yet.

thanks for your comments
charles i have added some pics of the tiller bracket, and some of the carb