About to start 45 Featherweight after 35 years —gear oil question

[BillWW]

Hello! I’ve just joined the forum!
My Seagull is a 40 Featherweight from 1984… not started for about 35 years.
I’m dusting her off, cleaning the fuel tank, checking everything out, and I’m about to put in new gear oil.

I have a question concerning gear oil. I’d like to test-run this Seagull in a tank just to see if I need to start getting parts and gaskets. However, I’m a little uncertain which gear oil to use.

One source indicates that post-1980 engines use SAE90. The copy of the little white owners handbook says to use SAE90 in the winter and SAE140 in the summer, and possibly even SAE250 in tropical climates (I’m in Miami, Florida).

I can buy STA-LUBE GL-4 Multipurpose Gear Oil 140 from Amazon, but it will take a couple weeks to arrive. There’s also the Seagull oil from Sheridan Marine.. but that’s also likely to be a long wait.

I have Quicksilver SAE90 in hand, and I’m curious if this will work? As an option, I’m only testing the engine right now… if I need SAE140 for general service, could I use the SAE90 in the mean time for only a few minutes use?

Thank you for your help!!

[andrew]

For breif testing in the tank, SAE90 would be OK and no damage should occur. Just make sure it’s topped up before running. But for running on the water you will definitely want to use 140.

The main issue, especially with well-used motors, is that SAE90 isn’t thick enough to form a proper seal between prop shaft and bushing. But the gearboxes aren’t sealed in any case, water slowly gets into the gearbox regardless of oil weight and it mixes with the oil to form an emulsified gunge inside the gearbox, which is thicker than the oil alone. This is by design and the 140W oil simply makes a thicker gunge.

You’ll probably notice that the 90 begins to drip out of the gearbox after you fill it up, and will drip slightly slower after running since it becomes emulsified. Just make sure you have a rag or better a cup under the motor to catch the drips when it’s sitting on the stand after testing, if you don’t drain it right away. Usually takes a few days for 90 to completely drip out, so it’s not a deluge of oil by any means. But it will definitely come out!

Some post 1980 motors had ‘sealed’ gearboxes, indicated by an extra screw on the top front of the gearbox which yours likely won’t have. Those were designed to use lower weight eg 90.

140 should be fine in Miami year round. I’m in warm climate and never use more than 140. Would just check/top up/change every 10 hours of running or so. Even 140 will drip on motors with particularly worn bushings, if you notice that more than a few drips come out each day with emulsified 140, you could add in a little heavier oil to the mix to thicken it, but this would be more of an indication that the bushing needs replacing.

Recommend only unscrewing the plastic oil cap and not the gearbox screws for your first test. There’s a thin paper gasket between the gearbox cap and gearbox which will most likely need replacing, so until you have one in hand (easily available from John @ SOS) best to leave the old one alone.

Good luck and please post photo / video once you have it running!

Andrew

[BillWW]

Thank you Andrew!

I’ve located some Millers Oils 7925 Green Gear Oil 140, GL1

It should be here on Wednesday!

This just became next weekend’s project.

I was able to clean some of the grunge off the engine today, and managed to find a D16 spark plug.

[Charles uk]

Bill can you post the serial number serial number from your 40 as that looks like a CDI ignition, can you also post a picture of the gearbox end cap, so we can count the screws, that Andrew was talking about.

[BillWW]

Hopefully I’ve photographed the correct bits!

The serial number is finicky … in just the right light it’s
EF 129A 4

This unit has a plastic cap on the top with a pull cord storage spot… I haven’t seen that in any other photos of Seagulls.

Let me know if you’d like more images!

Thanks,

[andrew]

Looks like EF129A4 to me!

Interestingly the SOS engine identifier struggles with that serial number, date code (A4) suggests Jan ‘84 but EF model range indicated at 1985-1989. Sometimes the serial number stamps aren’t exact, they were done by hand I believe. Perhaps Charles or another member can chime in on this. My best guess is that it was a Jan ‘85 motor misstamped as A4 instead of A5, ’A’=Jan and ‘4’=‘84. It was first month of the year and perhaps the stamper still had the 4 on the bench.

I have AF105E4 which is same featherweight model and very close in vintage to yours, May 1984 according to SOS engine identifier, mine with with the Amal 416 carb and steel tank. Bought from a guy in Tampa area who got it new in Florida in the 80s. Also have the plastic cap on top of the flywheel, that was used when the recoil starter was not fitted. I’ve fitted and removed recoil many times, mostly for vanity as it always works just fine with a pull on the regular cord.

Be sure to check the cork in the fuel tap, they tend to dry out after sitting for decades, but can sometimes be brought back to life with a little oil and/or boiling water. The main SOS page has a number of tips on this.

I bet yours fires up 2nd pull as well, as long as carb is cleaned etc. These are remarkable little motors and there is little to go wrong with them, especially the later CDI models.

Good luck!

PS bonus points to anyone who can spot one misconfiguration and two unusual parts fitted on mine.

[BillWW]

Andrew,

So, I’m sure my Seagull was purchased in the fall of 1984. I do recall that it was a demo unit sent from the factory to the dealer for display that represented an upcoming change.

This was purchased from Hopkins Carter in Miami, Fl. The first intended use was as a motor for a 10’ Avon tender to a Morgan. Outisland 41 sailboat owned by my parents.

After years of storage, it made its way back to me in the early 2000’s to live in my shed until now.

Now… for your challenge… I did spot something that is either misconfigured on yours or on mine… your throttle cable feeds through a hole at the end of the tiller.

Also, is the steel tank unusual on yours? I’ve a bronze tank.

Thank you!!



Thanks!!

[Charles uk]

Andrew does your throttle cable have a kink where it's wrongly threaded through the cable wrecking hole?

Bill the fact that your gearbox the pinion locating screw just above the end cap retaining screw means as Andrew said, it's a SAE 140 box.

[andrew]

Indeed I noticed in my picture that the throttle cable is (incorrectly) threaded through the handle. No idea why I would have done that, probably rushing to put it back together after I used the carb to test another motor.

As Charles points out this will kink the cable over time, and it also somewhat messes with the idle.

Additionally my carb is missing the top piece and instead it has a stainless flat washer on there instead, held on with what I believe is silicone. It came to me this way years ago and surprisingly it works just fine. Never got around to replacing it. I also forked out $$ for the brass banjo fitting that connects the fuel line to the carb. After replacing so many of the plastic ones over the years I decided to buy a few of those online as a permanent solution. I tend to swap them between motors as needed.

I believe mine came with the steel tank. Many of those have not stood the test of time, however mine was very lightly used and stored properly for the years before I bought it, so it remains in good condition. My tank paint is still very good which really does help with the rust situation.

[BillWW]

I believe I found a good gear oil - Miller Oils Green Gear Oil 140 GL1 - available from a distributor “Performance Racing” in the US- they sell on Amazon.

I’ll be changing the oil tomorrow!

I’m attaching a picture of the oil tin and a pamphlet that came with it.

Miller’s oil 140 gl1 in tin.

[BillWW]

It’s running!

New spark plug—D16. The original was Made in England!

Mixed the fuel 25:1

Put that new gear oil in

Started on the third pull!

[BillWW]

Andrew,

The fuel tap cork was a bit stuck, as you warned. But, knowing what was in there definitely helped. I loosened it by prying a bit from behind with the tip of a small straight screwdriver. It came free without any apparent issues, and it’s moving more-or-less normally now!

Fuel tap in open position

[Charles uk]

How much oil did you fill gear box with.

[BillWW]

Charles, I was very careful to follow the service manual… I filled to the top while set on the ground, spun the mechanism several times, then poured some more in. After that I mounted on a stand and let drain to the bottom lip and sealed it up. Advice if this wasn’t correct?
Thanks!

[Charles uk]

That's right!