EFPC Jan 1979

[Shawn]

Seagull's do tend to multiply.

I picked up a Jan '79 Forty Plus w/clutch (EFPC) from the original owner. He hadn't run it in 15 years and it was obviously used very little before that. It still has the 'Made in England' sticker on the tiller. He had the original Seagull spares kit (with 8 com plug as a spare and one in the engine), original USA sales literature from '79 including pricing for all four models and a sort of FAQ sheet from Intra explaining the differences in the '79 models compared to the earlier models. I can send scans of those to John if interested.

I didn't realize that the Forty Plus kept the brass tank that year, the other three models were shown with steel tanks. Brass tank has a little paint loss but no dents. The waterslide decals is mostly gone though... does anyone make one appropriate for this series? (25:1 and plug gap of .035)

I changed the plug to a D16 gapped to .035", changed the gear oil (only had 140 weight, my 90 weight was mulch-viscosity) and mixed up a batch of 25:1. Fired up on fourth pull and was pumping water great. It was stalling going into gear so I reset the mixture screw and ran it for a little while and it is better now. Will check it again to make sure it stays happy.

In one of my Seagull books it mentions a change to the '79 models to adjust the timing due to stalling going into gear. I don't know if this has been done or not, is it worth doing?

Made a video of the first start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkSFa8I34uU

Thanks,

Shawn

[Charles uk]

Shaun were did you find that stuff about changing the timing? I've never seen anything about that in any of the Seagull paperwork & that includes the dealer service manuals though I don't have the full set of those.

Which model of Amal 416 is fitted to yours?

The need to adjust the mixture screw is very unusual & falure to run correctly when started after 15 years is normaly down to not cleaning the carb & fuel system properly, as for stalling when put in gear there could be several reasons for that, gummed up fuel system & carb, too little throttle & the gear box containing a too viscous lubricant.

Post the scans of the differences for the 79 model on here, it will save John a job.

[Oyster 49]

That's a villiers carb not an Amal. Anyway very nice engine! I have a similar one from the previous year, I did think that my engine would have originally had a steel tank in 1978, perhaps not.

Sounds on the video like yours is running a little rich, my engine was exactly the same, I weakened the mixture a little by one turn of the mixture screw downwards, it is now a lot smoother, and less 4 stroking at lower throttle settings. The mixture screw should start level with the slide, and adjust downwards a little from there and see if it makes a difference.

Would be interested in seeing the documentation you have.

Love the "made in england" sticker

[Shawn]

Hi Charles,

It was in "The Classic British Seagull" by Don Meyer. Page 80 says C.D. stators after Feb. 1980 have elongated fixing holes to retard the stator by 5 degrees. It has a diagram on how to do the same thing to the Jan '79 through Feb 1980 stator plates to help with stalling going into gear.

Tank was clean as was the bowl before I started it up. I didn't check the jet though. Hose might have been a little clogged but the bowl was full so fuel was getting there fine. Gearbox has 140 weight in it so that might have contributed as well. I need to pick up some straight 90 weight.

I leveled off the mixture screw and it was much better but that could have also just been do to having it run a little while to get some fuel through the carb. I'll fire it up again in a day or two to recheck it to see how it is now.

I'll take some pics of the documentation and post it.

Shawn

[Charles uk]

It was my model 55 EFPC Blue tank 1979 that had the self destructed cylinder just before the Hayling Island recce & that had a 416.

Maybe they used different cab for the US market.

[Shawn]

Oyster,

Thanks, I was very happy with the condition this one turned out to be in. They are a bit harder to find in the US, esp. the later models.

It may be a little too rich. It was too lean when it first started up... no smoke and the throttle response was not good. Cracking the throttle and it wanted to stall. Choked it was running better. I leveled off the mixture screw which made it run much better. I will try leaning it a little and seeing how it does.

I scanned the docs, they can be found at:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51419329/1979%2 ... 20docs.pdf

Not sure if it can be read but on the second page there was a hand written note about Forty Plus was $350 last year ('78). At least in that documentation it shows the Forty Plus still having the brass tank. I can try and redo those pics if they are too hard to read.

Thanks,

Shawn

[charlesp]

I would tend to be a tad cautious about some of the things in Mr Meyer's book.

[Oyster 49]

I personally have never felt the need the tinker with the timing I've not read the book in question, but I'm sure the factory people knew best.

[Shawn]

Thanks, will do. The way it was written in the book made it sound as if the factory had changed timing on the MK3 ignitions after the first year of production by changing the mounting plate. I'll leave it alone.

Thanks,

Shawn

[fastjedi]

Hi Shawn, Thank you for your post. Very interesting.

I have two EFPC's, one September 1979 and one September 1989. The 1989 one is in good working order, but needs a cosmetic makeover.
I have rebuilt the 1979 one over the winter as it had a cracked block when aquired last year.

The 79 model has .... A dark blue "Selva" branded recoil top, silver recoil body, aluminium exhaust tube, black villiers carb and black steel tank. I have been wondering if it should have a blue steel tank, it hadn't occurred to me that it might have started life with a brass tank! Incidentally, the electronic ignition mounting plate is slotted. It didn't look like a modification, I put it back in the same position as it came out!

The 89 model has .... all black "Seagull" branded recoil top and body, chrome exhaust, Amal 416 carb and a brass tank which is, ofcourse, non standard. The drive tube, mounting bracket swivel and throttle arm is black power coat.

I opted for EFPC after some communication with John.
I wanted a Seagull that was practical to use on a weekly basis (which they are) I think the 79 one will say and the 89 will be going at some point.
Perhaps I should swap the tanks first

[Shawn]

Your '79 sounds similar to mine though I think the dark blue recoil is labeled Siba.

Tried the Seagull again today. I adjusted the mixture screw down 1 turn from flat and the engine did seem to be running better after it warmed up on the choke a little longer.

I ended up running it for 10 or 15 minutes going in and out of gear, idling, under load 1/2 throttle and 3/4 throttle and ran into a new problem. It started getting really smokey and running lousy.

Turns out the adjustment screw is completely unscrewing itself inside the carb. I reset it and ran it under the same sort of test conditions and it unscrewed itself again.

How does everyone keep this from occurring? I wasn't sure if loctite will hold up inside the carb?

Thanks,

Shawn

[Taspiper]

Sounded pretty good the second time around.
Pull the adjustment screw right out. When out you will see its split in half from the bottom. Gently expand it out a bit and that should give it enough friction to hold it from vibrating up out of the slide.

[Shawn]

Hi Rolf,

Thanks, I did pull the screw all the way out but it is not split in the bottom half. I did see some pictures of adjustment screws like this but the one in my carb is different. It has a hole through the middle along with a section of no threads around that hole. Was something supposed to be in that to give it friction to keep from sliding out?

Thanks,

Shawn

[Charles uk]

Is the number on the side of your carb 416/**?

[Shawn]

Hi Charles,

Looking at the exploded diagrams on the 416 vs. the Villiers

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/faq/amal_carb.htm
http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/fa ... s_carb.htm

this definitely has the Villiers carb on it. I get to the adjustment screw by unscrewing the ring that holds the top disc in place. Likewise the float in the bowl is literally just floating, it is not hinged like on the 416 in that diagram.

Thanks,

Shawn