FVP10021

[Stelios_Rjk]

Hello guys,

I received my little forty and some other goodies. Mixed feelings, I will let you know in the end..

By the time I receive it, the spanners come out and remain on fire for a couple of hours.


The facts.

It was stiff when turning the flywheel. I realized that the reason was the dry gearbox. I filled it with diesel and gently started turning back and forth the flywheel. That helped and it finally turned free. Later I will open the gearbox for a proper cleaning.

After managing to turn free the flywheel I found out that the coil was dead.

I started removing the head. Pretty tricky procedure. The worst thing was the products of galvanic corrosion between the holes of the cylinder head and the studs. That thing prevented the removal of the head. My beloved knife (you will see it in a picture lying around somewhere) did all the job avoiding screwdriver hits etc on the head, head gasket etc.
Once the head was removed the rest were a piece of cake. The exhaust were easily removed so I managed to take of the cylinder. Piston, bore, cases etc were nice and clean, that may be a result of the diesel I was pouring through the carb inlet while turning the flywheel.

Studs looks in fair condition but I would like your opinion about that. Is there a good reason why I should remove them or should I just leave them as they are?

Tank! The most difficult part for me. My torch is not strong enough to remove the ends and the seller did the dumbest package I have ever seen. Result? More dents or deformation of the tank, broken Bakelite spark plug and a smashed 8 com spark plug. That's the reason for the mixed feelings. Anyway..

Let's get to the pictures. I would also like to point to any non original part. The lever maybe?




















Gaskets in rather reusable condition. They have some porous but not excessive corrosion.





Debris was loose, with little effort it was almost clean.



The tiller arm cracked due to corrosion. Is it also chopped off?



Some kind of filler was applied to repair corrosion. I think I will have to do the same.



Original or..?






The handle was straight before shipping....



The beauty.




Any comments welcomed!

[Keith.P]

I was watching that one, it looks original and should clean up nicely, well done.

[Oyster 49]

Nice and fairly typical condition. I would leave those studs undisturbed if I were you..the crankcases will clean up and the head can either be dressed to remove the corrosion and welded and skimmed on a milling machine, perhaps repaired with epoxy.

The gasket plates can be cleaned up and reused, later copper head gaskets fit ok, and the cylinder will also be fine. Get rid of that silly handle on the tank!! John has the small flying seagull decals, which are rather neat.

Best of luck with separating the leg from the lower casting, quite possibly the only way is to cut the leg and implode the remains. I posted some pics of doing this a while back.

Another one saved

[Stelios_Rjk]

Keith things may have turned better in case of picking her up on your own! I get involved because it also looked original to me and... At least it's here.

Nice and fairly typical condition. I would leave those studs undisturbed if I were you..the crankcases will clean up and the head can either be dressed to remove the corrosion and welded and skimmed on a milling machine, perhaps repaired with epoxy.

The gasket plates can be cleaned up and reused, later copper head gaskets fit ok, and the cylinder will also be fine. Get rid of that silly handle on the tank!! John has the small flying seagull decals, which are rather neat.

Best of luck with separating the leg from the lower casting, quite possibly the only way is to cut the leg and implode the remains. I posted some pics of doing this a while back.

Another one saved

Alright then, studs will remain untouched. The handle will certainly be removed and the tank will be treated as good as it can get.

I remember a comment Charles had made about the leg being screwed in the water pump housing. I hadn't realized that he was referring to that model until I receive it.
And what you said sounds scaring! Maybe excessive heat could do the miracle but why should I remove it and refit it?

I also measured the coil, certainly dead!

[Oyster 49]

Send me the tank stelios, I'll sort it, I like tanks..

You will need to remove the leg to fit a nice new one of course Surely you are not going paint over that rust?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3351&hilit=mission+impossible

[Keith.P]

They either unscrew or they don't, heat or not, I think I had one out of three that unscrewed, if you damage the thread, its going to be hard to fix.
Have a go, but easy does it.
Its nice to get the drive tube off so it can re-plated, as most of the time the tubes are pretty rusty, but it doesn't always work out that way and you may have to just paint it.

[Oyster 49]

I've tried to get two out, both times they were solid, but I managed to find other legs in fair condition. Cheaper than plating, which seems to cost a fortune now. I agree about painting though, with decent prep the finish can be pretty good. Don't tell Stelios though..

[Stelios_Rjk]

No painting is not a solution. I may contact a platter to see if he could plate only the tube with the casting still attached and wrapped with something that would prevent plating. Of course I will try to undo it.

Adrian.. This offer was really tempting!

[Stelios_Rjk]

Is this called luck? I was waiting to see corrosion etc.

[Collector Inspector]

THAT IS A NICE MOTOR Stelios.

Gently gently and it will all be coming apart and back together with a lot less fuss than mine.

Well done

B

[Stelios_Rjk]

Holy cr*p!!! Bruce, you were absolutely right!!!


Materials: Torch, vice, a bucket of water, some penetrating oil, a rod to apply torque.

The sequence.

Heat the casting and/or internally the tube until "cree cree" noises occur from the expansion of the metals. Straight dip it in the water.
2-3 times and then I applied torque hits with the rod between the casting and the tube.

Tip: I heat again the parts, after the last dip, a little to be expanded when I started to unscrew the casting.

Oh, I forgot, I used the penetrating oil after it moved to come out smoothly.


Platter is closer than ever!

What kind of unseize compound should I use in that threads?

[Charles uk]

Don't use water to quench, use diesel some will penatrate the threads, then reheat without cooling then gently try, you were lucky Stelious that thread is perfect, but doing when cold cancels the different expansion benefits of heating.

Stelious measure the thickness of your mild steel gaskets in the least corroded areas & then measure the thickness of a used copper head gasket on the thickest bit next to the bore, how much thinner is the copper?

We've already established that the 100% exposed to coolant head studs, are very prone to electrolytic corrosion as is the head & crankcase, do you view adding copper to this battery as a positive or negative benefit?

The decrease in head to piston clearance won't matter if this is a collectors motor that will only run once a year, when showing it off, but increasing the loadings on 65 year old plain bearings might be another negative step during your restoration.

Also note if planning rechroming the drive shaft tube, those threads don't look like they've ever seen chrome & make sure that when they're polishing your tube, they don't polish too close to the parts that have to be a good fit!

Those gaskets might be perfect with a chemical clean & a nickel plate, or any sheet metal works would be able to cut & punch these gaskets for cents leaving you just to radius the corners & file the transfer passage notch.

Nice Seagull with no major problems!

[Stelios_Rjk]

Don't use water to quench, use diesel some will penatrate the threads, then reheat without cooling then gently try, you were lucky Stelious that thread is perfect, but doing when cold cancels the different expansion benefits of heating.

Good idea to follow, I had realized that hot threads "suck" the penetrating oil.

Stelious measure the thickness of your mild steel gaskets in the least corroded areas & then measure the thickness of a used copper head gasket on the thickest bit next to the bore, how much thinner is the copper?

Without measuring as the head is assembled again to avoid hits on the piston etc, I expect original gasket to be a little bit more than one 1mm and a used copper one close to 0.7mm. I get the point

We've already established that the 100% exposed to coolant head studs, are very prone to electrolytic corrosion as is the head & crankcase, do you view adding copper to this battery as a positive or negative benefit?

Battery, that's the word. One more reason to avoid a copper gasket.
That was one of my concerns for all other square block engines. The contribution of copper to galvanic corrosion.

The decrease in head to piston clearance won't matter if this is a collectors motor that will only run once a year, when showing it off, but increasing the loadings on 65 year old plain bearings might be another negative step during your restoration.

Also note if planning rechroming the drive shaft tube, those threads don't look like they've ever seen chrome & make sure that when they're polishing your tube, they don't polish too close to the parts that have to be a good fit!

Good point, I was prepared to avoid platting from the threads but I hadn't that in mind for the other end. I will also protect the other end of the tube.

Those gaskets might be perfect with a chemical clean & a nickel plate, or any sheet metal works would be able to cut & punch these gaskets for cents leaving you just to radius the corners & file the transfer passage notch.

Nice Seagull with no major problems!

Great idea about plating the gaskets, that didn't cross my mind but since I will go to the platter. Tin or nickel plating would be better?

Indeed a great little engine that after the way things turned, there's no more mixed fillings!

Really happy with this little engine!

[Charles uk]

A clean used copper gasket can be as little as 0.65 mm 0.026" & some new ones as thick as 1mm 0.040" depending on when they were made.

Where as the steel gaskets seem to be about 1.3mm. Perhaps some of the members with one in bits could check theirs.

[charlesp]

On Charles's prompting, I have been out to the workshop and found three steel gaskets. One of them was 1.28 mm, the others about 1.32 mm. I say 'about' because I was using a Vernier and the gaskets themselves are ancient, there's a bit of crud and corrosion.