The LS - the first 64cc Seagull

[Gannet]

The LS was the first 64cc capacity engine. It was followed by a vast number of the smaller engined Seagulls:- SJM, SJP, F, FP etc etc and as such is an important model.

But when was the first LS produced and what is its serial number? Does anybody know?

Initially the LS was produced concurrently with the latter FV and FVP and used the same serial number sequence. So that the first LS would not have had number LS1, but would possibly have had a number in the 10000 to 13000 range, or perhaps slightly lower.

I am interested in hearing from anybody who has an early LS in this serial number range. The smaller the number, the earlier the engine – we might even find the first LS !! What serial numbers have you got?

Obviously it does not need to be complete; a broken crankcase assembly with a legible serial number would do.

Thanks

Jeremy

[Hugz]

Started digging into the catacombs.

"In the World"



26748



Bird tank.



If memory serves me right it has a clamped lower drive shaft whereas there is another with the threaded assembly somewhere about.. Are the F's threaded?

[skyetoyman]

LS18258L --- very good runner ----oh no it's LLS

[BillyKnight]

My Ls is 19441, so not one of the earliest I guess, but a lovely straight little engine.

[phil]

I've got LS 12667, looks like LS 19441 except the flywheel cover plate was blank.

[Gannet]

All great engines.

Phil, LS12667 is obviously an early one. It might even be the earliest! We will have to see what else gets reported here.

Has anybody got an earlier one? Search the workshop and check the number on that spare crankcase assembly!

Jeremy

[fastjedi]

LS36688 .... awaiting restoration sometime. I guess i'm not the winner!

[Hugz]

LS 36748
LS 26748 (that is the one mentioned before, how similar are those numbers. exactly 10000 apart!)

There is another forty lurking at the back but too hard to get to at present.

[phil]

If I plug in LS numbers to the engine identifier section, I can get as far back as 1949- 50 and around LS 102, a listing that old seems to say that the one I have from 1953-54 is nowhere near being very early.
Of course it all depends on which info the engine identifier used when set up. Another thread I saw here does seem to indicate that 1953 was the first year for the LS series.

[Gannet]

Phil,
The engine identifier seems to be based on a British Seagull list which is on the main SOS site.
This is a list from number 100 to number 38344. The F, FV, (VF?), FVP and LS all used these numbers, but a number was only used once. The prefix to each number would have been F,FV,(VF?), FVP or LS.
In other words the total number of Fs, FVs, (VFs?), FVPs and LSs would have been 38344 minus 100. This equals 38245 outboards.
Now, from this BS list we do not know how many of each model was produced, or indeed the serial number of the first one of each new model.
So I think that the engine identifier has lumped together the Fs, FVs, FVPs and LSs, so that any of these prefixes (is that the plural?) of a specific number will produce the same data.
So to know what the serial number of the first LS is, we have to search. Unless of course somebody has a bit of BS paper with the answer.
It is of course highly unlikely that we will actually know the serial number of the first one. However with your help we now know that it is 12667 or earlier.
Also strictly speaking the Little Model 40 is the correct name for just the F and FV. I know the engine identifier has included the FVP and the LS under this name.
Jeremy

[phil]

Was wondering if you recieved any PMs from me today. There seems to be a gitch with the PM board. It showed no messages at top of this page, but I recieved notification on my email site and got your message.

[phil]

Ok, got your your message re numbering sequence. It's too bad they didn't keep better records!

When Johnson opened their Canadian plant in Peterborough, Ontario in 1929, they listed serial numbers against motor model numbers, so that even if it was only one or 2 motors produced before switching to another model we can know the year and infer what 1/4 of that year it might have been built. The list runs 1929-1950 and is available to AOMCI members in the members only section.

I have a 1931 Johnson OK 55 model and was able to find from the list that it was #3 of 9 long shaft motors of that model built in 1931.

[Murray210]

I have LS31003 down here in the Colony, not the earliest at approx 55/56, but a lovely little, everyday unrestored runner all the same.

[Gannet]

On e bay at the moment LS11413 is being auctioned. It will interesting to hopefully know whether it will go to a forum member.

Phil - This is obviously earlier than your LS12667 and is the earliest that I am aware of, although it probably isn't the first - but who knows? With regard to your comment about British Seagull's record keeping. I have been informed that a lot (most?) of the records were deliberately destroyed in more recent times when they were trying to look forward and develop a more modern outboard and didn't want to keep looking back. Sad, but there we are.

Anymore LSs out there earlier than 11413?

Jeremy

[Stelios_Rjk]

There's another LS broken for parts.