Tough little Beasties

[smutts]

I've always loved the almost skeletal simplicity of Seagulls and from a mispent youth always wanted one. So a visit to the recycling center (dump) I found a forty year old, forty plus. Mine for £10.
As I no longer have anything that floats, the missus looked at me with that "why?" look.
Perfect size to drop in the car boot, and away we go.

Turned over ok, with compression, and no play.
After a day of penetrating oil, remove the plug and put the piston to the top, and pour in some carb cleaner to soak the rings and ungum them.
Fuel tap has plier rash from Others trying to turn it on (Der!), and they have snapped the little screw that stops the tap falling out when you PULL for ON like it SAYS on the tap. Replace screw with one from a british 13amp plug, (tip from "pooroldchap" video on youtube), it works.
Clean grit out of the bing carb jet.
Pour several tablespoons of two stroke oil through the carb throat & invert motor to get fresh oil on the bearings.
Clean points with folded bit of 1200 wet&dry.
Clean green vomit out of the tank.
Spin without plug to get rid of excess oil.
Put in plug and fresh fuel,
Tickle and pull.

And? Started instantly, probably for the first time in twenty years.

Absolutely purrs.
Now what to do about a little boat.

[AusOB_Collector]

Hi Smutts

Good work! Would you be able to post some pics of your Seagull?
It might be worth mentioning that you should entertain removing the head so you can have a look at/clean out the water galleries on your motor, if you have been following the thread about the CP on here then you will see how the water jackets can get filled up with crud.

All the best

Cheers
BP

[smutts]

I was considering the lazy method of dissolving the rust by inverting it and filling the water jackets up with phosphoric acid.
Expensive to buy, unless you go to a farmers merchants and get "milkstone remover" 5 litres is about 12 quid.
Probably a good way to destroy the brass fittings though. And body parts.

The "DO NOT REMOVE" on the head seems to warn of snapped head bolts and other joy if I do go there.
If I do pluck up the courage, are head bolts available in marine grade stainless?

[headdownarseup]

To remove the head from a 40 block will require some heat from a blow torch (this will reduce the risk of shearing a bolt) some good fitting sockets and tools and a bit of patience.
New head bolts are available from John via SOS

It's not quite as scary as it sounds as long as you dont rush the job. Heat the block first before you put a socket on the bolts. Keep the heat away from the aluminium head so as to reduce any warping. Once removed you'll very easily see why we go on about this job being well worth the trouble. All manner of junk and crud blocking up the waterways is a long slow death for any seagull.
Once the blockage is cleared your little gull's engine should provide many more years of faithful service. WITHOUT it, only time will tell.
Dont be fooled into thinking that because there is water flowing out of the "tell tale" that there wont be some kind of blockage in there!
In the past i've been shocked to find exactly this. Very good waterflow but low compression got me into thinking i need to remove the head for a better look inside. No surprises as to what i found in the waterways....

Overall they are quite tough little beasties provided you look after them properly.

Jon

[Collector Inspector]

As Jon says

Follow the heating guides and remove the head...............you will be glad that you did.........lots of help and old posts to research etc.

These things are simple but they need the "Basics" to last well and be reliable enough to not want to throw off a pier........that reminds me actually?

Get stuck in.

Wee Boaty McBoatface will turn up one day.

BnC

[haventaclue]

to not want to throw off a pier.

I didn't,but it boiled down to the plugs,yep,both of them,being bad.Hard to believe that two Champion D16's, brand new out of the box would go so quick.Basically I got about an hours running out of each plug.NGK AB6's only way to go

[smutts]

I've heard people having trouble with modern made sparkplugs in old machinery.

Allegedly.............flooding modern plugs with modern fuel can cause them to break down and die when there isn't a modern zillion volt ignition system firing them. Old plugs were glazed at the factory, supposedly this makes them able to shrug off the effect of being flooded................Allegedly.

This does make sense, modern fuel injection systems make flooding a modern engine very unlikely. Supposedly old dismantle able plugs are the way to go.

How do you spell allegedly anyway?

I cracked my com8 sparkplug trying to get the rusted bits apart. Look on Fleabay, and £20 seems to be the going rate. Ouch.

I had the daft idea that the junk shop in the next town to me might be able to help.
Do you have any old spark plugs? Says I.
Out comes this box, and right on top, a genuine, dismantleable, unused, Champion com8.
Pinch myself, I'm dreaming.
How much? asks I.
50p!
Definately dreaming, but no!
Chuffed to bits am I.

Just to waffle on, I tried a colortune plug, it's as old as me with the original postage delivery stamp of 1968.
Unlike the more modern versions, the sparkgap is miles up an 8mm tunnel. With the 18mm brass adapter off a compression tester, I had a sparkplug, sort of.
Once I measured that the spark gap was now at the dead end of a 34mm long, 8mm wide, tunnel from the normal spark position, I was certain this cannot work. Surely that spark will fire in a load of dead gas.
Suprise! It fired up and ran fine.
So I can fiddle and play with the mixture.

[headdownarseup]

Told you a "coloutrtune" would work didn't i?

Might not give you all the answers you're looking for however, but will give you some idea of what the fueling is doing inside your gull!

Interestingly i've not had that much trouble with "modern" plugs. As long as the points and plug are gapped properly a bone stock seagull should run reasonably well without too many issues. Most of mine do anyway...

8COM plugs are worth searching for as they are very "user friendly" and able to be dismantled for cleaning. (as long as it's not corroded together)

Jon

[smutts]

If you like bright pink, a Lodge BBL should be a suitable equivalent to the champion COM8.

[Keith.P]

According to my 1955 Lodge book the C1 plug is the one used on Seagulls, BBL is for cool running engines.
Even though, I have seen lots of different plugs used on seagulls, by the way, its an 8 Com, there is not such thing as a Com 8 plug.

[smutts]

Doh! 8 com it is! I was using this link to search for less well known (ie cheaper on fleabay) equivalents...
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Plugs/equiv.htm

I've resigned myself to pulling the head.
Similar to Schrodingers cat, there will be an occilating quantum wave function of the seagull water jacket being simultaneously both full to the brim with rust, or almost squeaky clean.

Leaving the head on will guarantee it being full of rust. Pulling the head will guarantee it being rustless inside.

Also known as Sods Law.

The seagull is now upside down with the water jacket full of Belzona Nato fluid (a marine grade penetrating oil), another dump find of mine.
It may or may not help with the head bolts.
I will try the bolts next weekend.

[Keith.P]

That's the trouble, surprisingly, not all information on the internet is true.

[headdownarseup]

In time you will find out that once your cylinder head has been removed, the head bolt threads are somewhat exposed within the waterjacket.
Corrosion or no corrosion it's time to get out your blowtorch and tell this little gull who's boss here!

We will of course be waiting for a full in depth update of your findings with pictures added.

Go on, get stuck into it. No time like the present

Jon

[smutts]

the head bolt threads are somewhat exposed within the waterjacket

That is good news, this means that they are somewhat exposed to the penetrant that is currently sitting in the said waterjacket.
I shall operate next weekend after it's had a good long soak.

Plenty of the nato fluid poured in, so it cannot be completely full of rust.............maybe.

[smutts]

Looked in my tool box and found my whitworth sockets that had had sat unused for thirty years.
Too easy, so assuming the law of sod was sleeping, I couldn't resist a quick try of the headbolts.
and..............they undid really easily.
Luck or Nato Fluid, who knows, but I am chuffed.

So for the picture addicts, now I've worked out photobucket,...........finally.


£10 beastie (the fuel tank straps are arse about face, this causes the spark plug cap to get broken on the ground)

The dreaded head bolts.


Gunged water passages


Oh! So there's supposed to be a passage there.


Call it good.

Anyway, rusty, but not as rusty as it could have been. Half an hour prodding with a screwdriver and half an hour soak of acidic drain cleaner (once the exhast is slipped down, water pipe undone and plugged) , then neutralised with a garden sprayer of warm water with bicarbonate of soda blasted into the nooks and crannys. Job done.

Once this thing gets used, I think that rinsing through with a garden hose to the water outlet, followed by a really good long blast of WD40 would keep much of the corrosion at bay.