Newbie with a typical newbie question

[browser]

Hi, new bloke here who's kinda-sorta decided that a Britich Seagull might fit his bill. I've just bought a cheapo PV inflatable (Intex Excursion 5) to use on our local river and would like a motor as I've too lazy to row all day
I've an eye on what looks to my utterly inexperienced eyes like a short shaft model on the dreaded Ebay, and the owner says the serial number is LLS 76L3. I can't seem to make this number make sense from the sheets of engine numbers on this page, doe sit make more sense to anyone else please?
This is a pic of said motor if that's any help?



The one bum note the description sounds is that he says it is in GWO but then says it hasn't run for 10 years. Should I scream and run, or will it still be usable?
Thanks for any help you can offer.

[charlesp]

Well the vendor does say it's ancient but in good working (I presume the word 'order' is missing.)

Many on these pages would regard December 1963 as being actually a fairly recent Seagull, a mere forty five years old. The 3 at the end means 1963, the L is the letter code for December of that year.

It looks OK, but naturally much will depend on the eventual price, including the cost of delivery.

The LLS was the first version of the Century, with a Villiers carburattor. I've heard it said that the blocks on these are better than the later Silver Centuries, which had an Amal carb which produced a bit more power.

It's better to see it running, of course. That way you can check that it starts and runs, that the drive shaft hasn't corroded away, that it pumps water properly, and most important of all, that there are no cracks in the water jacket.

Just because it hasn't run for ten years doesn't mean much on its own.

[Vic]

Good job someone understands those numbers!

I thought L was not used as a date letter and even if it was I'd have made it November, not that 1 month makes any difference in 45 years!


Personally I think it will be too heavy for what is after all just a cheap plastic dinghy. OK on 10ft Avon, Zodiac or something like that maybe especially one with a transom stern. I think you may have trouble getting a cheapie firm enough to support the weight and I also think that with that round tail unless you keep a good weight in the bows it will always be liable to tip over backwards.
We used a Forty Featherweight on an Avon Redstart (2.5m) yacht tender and being in the stern with it was always a bit hairy unless there was some weight in the bows.

I have a Forty Plus that I use on a 10' 10" Mirror dinghy occasionally and which is quite adequate in power for that.

That age Seagull is going to be stuck with a 10:1 fuel mix so it is also going to be messy, no MESSY.

And it will be noisy, if this is a quiet river somewhere, NOISY

To be perfectly frank, SOS board or not, I'd suggest on grounds of weight noise, messiness and ease of handling that a modern motor such as a small Mitsubishi, Yamaha, or Suzuki would be a better choice.

OR and I never thought I would suggest this to anyone anywhere, one of the small rechargeable electric outboards such as those from Torqeedo's Travel range http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/home.html

Sorry to be so negative!

I would be interested in what you think of the dinghy though. I think the 3 person one might satisfy a need I have for a small light and cheap dinghy.

[charlesp]

You're quite right about L not being used as a date letter, but I have seen a number of 1960's engines like this. I have a feeling that - as with so much at British Seagull - the human factor crept in occasionally.

I also wasn't used because it looked like a '1'; I've seen that one, too.

[browser]

Thanks for the replies so far.
Would i be correct in thinking that 'featherweight' in relation to a Seagull is the same as the 'lightweight' British motorbikes of the same era i.e. not very? What sort of weight do these come in at please?
I'll certainly let you know about the quality/durability of th boat when it comes, I've a sneaking suspicion it's not going to eb too good but SWMBO wouldn't loosen the purse strings enough to stretch to a used Avon or Bombard
The sneaky plot I have in mind is to get her used to enjoying the river with this one, then move on up to something more robust in future
According to the bumph I've read, you *supposed* to be able to hang up to a 3.5hp motor off the stern of one of these, but the tip-over-backwards scenario has already run trhough my mind, so I thing some permanent ballast will be in order in the bows

[Vic]

The Featherweight, with a full fuel tank, weighs approx 14kg
The Forty Plus, with an empty fuel tank, weighs approx 13.5 kg

The 40+ is the standard shaft model, no clutch. The Featherweight is a shorter shaft (The only length it came in)

[browser]

Ahh, so really no heavier than any competitors model from the examples I've seen for sale. The one major thing I've learned from your very kind replies is to check the petrol/oil mix ratio that the motor needs, since 10:1will, I agree, be very messy
There's a couple of nice recoil start models on the dreaded Ebay at the mo, including one which claims to have never been used, so I'll keep looking.

[Clifford Pope]

I use a 40+ on a 6 foot ply tender I built myself. It is probably a bit overpowered, but it does the job nicely. I found that mine was reluctant to start because of exhaust back pressure, as it was too deep in the water, but I fixed that by putting a collar round the tube just above the bracket.

My 2 tips would be:
1) tie a stout cord round the block and always tie it on somewhere while lifting

2) have a rag handy to mop up the petrol that dribbles out of the carburettor when you tilt the engine. I imagine petrol is not very good for a rubber dinghy.

I don't find the 10:1mix all that smoky. It comes out under water so just seems to melt away. Nor is that noisy either.
However I do find that running it only at fast idle most of the time it needs the plug cleaning after every use.

[Vic]

I find a 40 Feather weight adequate for a light plywood dinghy that is just under 8ft long although it is slower with a load of gear on board than it is with just me. Being a shorter shaft than the 40+ I never have any starting problems and running at WOT whenever possible on 25:1 I never have any plug fouling problems

I did at one time use a 40+ on it with a depth adjusting collar but then I happened upon a good Featherweight which being smaller is easier to stow once on board the mother craft

Another excuse to post pictures of the dink (click to enlarge)

[browser]

I would be interested in what you think of the dinghy though. I think the 3 person one might satisfy a need I have for a small light and cheap dinghy.

Right, finally got tyhe chance (a) to reply and (b) to try out the boat on the water!! Yes, I know it's been some time since my original post, gimme a break I've been busy
I ended up buying a Yamaha P-45 from a friend of my wife's uncle. These are I'd hazard a guess even more scarce than Seagulls as they stopped building them in 1979! First attempt on the water it just would not start, depsite a new plug and checked points. I had managed to get a manual for it via Ebay, from a marine repair place in Australia of all places, and had ordered new ignition parts (points, condenser, coil with integral HT lead) and got them fitted end of last week. I took the carb to bits yesterday and what I can only describe as limescale came out of the float bowl
Now, this thing has not been run in seawater, the metal & paint/powder coat is in far too good nick for that, so I can only assume this is 30* years of hardened accummulated crud. Anyhoo, blew it through with my air line, reassembled it with all of the new ignition bits and once on my patent motor stand in a dustbin of water, first pull off she went.
So, to the point of this post, the boat. As said before it's an Intex Excursion 5, bought from an Ebay supplier in Germany via Ebay Spain or Portugal (can't remember which) as it was much cheaper than buying in the UK! £47.98 + £32 postage wasn't bad I thought.
It's got three buoyancy chambers (the floor and an inner & outer hull), 2 inflatable seats with backrests and one inflatable mid-position seat. The onyl annoyance is that the hull inflation valves are Boston-type, albeit budget ones, whereas the floor is a beachball-type one way valve. This wouldn't be a problem but the inflation pump has a large nozzle to fit the Boston valves and this also fits the floor valve, but doesn't hold open the one-way flap inside said valve, making pumping the floor up a bit of an effort!
Once this was done it was the work of moments to attach the motor mount, get it in the water, attach the motor and get going. It handled very well, but being a flat floored type was susceptible to being pushed about a little by the wind. The stern also collapsed in a little as it was being pushed inward by the thrust from the motor on the mounts, so I can see myself devising an aluminium/plastic alternative which pushes more evenly against the hull than this one.
The only real negative I can come up with is that the floor partially deflated, not a calamity in itself as this boat has plenty of reserve buoyancy but a pain on it's maiden voyage all the same! I''l see if I can localise the leak as it will make this boat about perfect for me and mine!

[Waggles]

As a matter of interest I recently renovated a 1989 Mariner which was made by Yamaha. When it wouldn't start I checked the carb and found it full of white powdery crud too. I think it is due to the kind of Alloy used by the japanese. Am sure someone more knowledgeable than I with metals could tell us more but it seems to be a theme. Don't know if they still are but all the Jap bikes I owned / saw used to have all the alloy parts laquered, if you ever took this off, or it wore off Jeez did it corrode once it had got wet.

The Mariner was a runner when I got it and had been in the garage for around 4 years so the crud doesn't take that long to form!

[browser]

Follow up on the delflating floor: After going over the inside with a spray bottle of washing-up liquid & water I flipped it and started on the bottom. Pretty quickly found what can only be described as a gouge in the PVC which, despite being quite heavy-duty, didn't shrug this off. I am mystified as to how it happened but I'll have to get a repair kit and get it patched a.s.a.p.