AD16381

[headdownarseup]

Nice pics A-J.
I think i already have the data on some of these.
Now the really interesting point i'd like to make here with AD4331 and my own AC3392 is that they are only 939 apart in the numbers.
At this stage would it be wrong of me to say that perhaps the fuel pipe possibly may have been changed at some point in the motors life?
According to the advertisement pics sent in by Boyd (thanks for that) and others on the main site it does clearly show a metal pipe same as AC3392.
These things will break eventually do you agree! With more data to work from an approximate date as to the change to a flexi pipe (clear or black etc.) will become more evident.
For now though the data is too thinly spread to arrive at any firm conclusions over this just yet. I'm sitting patiently for more data to arrive.

At the moment i am of the opinion that the bowl position is correctly fitted to the rear of the cylinder. Any pics of motors with the bowl to the left would suggest an owner "modification" for whatever reason.
Are we agreed?

Another point worth mentioning.
Fuel cap and tank. Again data is very thin at the moment but 3392 has a brass bayonet tank, and 4331 looks like a brass tank with screw top ali cap.Refer back to old adverts to see this.
In time data will provide a date as to a change. (tanks get dented and bashed, caps drop off etc. so trying to work out what's happened to a motor during it's lifetime is a slow painstaking process)

We'll get there, it just takes time that's all
BTW A-J, that fuel pipe for your SD was brand new old stock

Keep 'em coming

Jon

[Oyster 49]

As far as I'm aware the only engine to have the rear positioned float bowl is the SD. SDP s and early D, AD, C and AC have fixed fuel plated fuel tube. Later engines had the flexible hose.

[Hugz]

I concur.

[Adrian Dale]

Has any one got a good clear photo of the plated fuel pipe? Ideal would be dimensioned, shouldn't be too difficult to make. just need a good goby for the shape.

AJ

[AusAnzani]

Hi guys, thanks for all the input do far, It is greatly appreciated.

Been tied up with business meetings and overseas guests last few days. Hopefully back in to the 102 tomorrow and a few more progress pics to post here.

Promise to record as much as possible for Jon also. Will do as requested, but as I am not experienced with Gulls, please keep an eye on the pics also in case miss something important.

Regards
S

[headdownarseup]

Fuel pipes, bowl positioning etc. this is becoming more than just interesting now. Particularly fuel pipes for me. Would be good to try and narrow down a date as to the changes.

The trouble with metal fuel pipes is that they tend to bend and break over time, hence why pipes get changed and the "originality" of the motor has somewhat dissappeared. Nothing new there. Data collection over the last 2 1/2 years has started to show this now.

I was just lucky with 3392. I knew it was a good'un when i first saw it. Basically untouched since i bought it, just cleaned up and serviced. Tis one of my fav's at the moment and it gets used quite often. Runs like a clock as i'm sure A-J will testify as he had to use this last year when his SD threw its toys out of the pram.

If anyone needs a better pic or some measurements of the fuel pipe just ask. (it's a little bent though, but doesn't leak)

Oyster
By "rear" of the cylinder, do you mean to the left or right (as you look at it) with regards to bowl position.

All good though.

Jon

[Oyster 49]

Rear as in when it is on a boat. To the left.

[Charles uk]

I don't know about everyone else but I'm getting confused about where the float chamber should be situated & why & quite what the deciding factors are, if I'm having problems how's a guest trying to correctly rebuild his carb going to manage, only Bruce commented on the restriction to steering if wrongly located, but no one mentioned that it might be the inlet port position that might be the crux of the matter.

On an SD of any flavour, it's a no brainer, the availability of NOS fuel pipes & the fact it's normally a side mounted motor with an iron transom/gunnel clamp that won't steer as intended if wrongly fitted.

It would be very helpful for all our guests if Jon's researches could give us an approximate date of the last low inlet port cylinders, & when the plastic/rubber fuel pipes first appeared in the price lists.

As for the oil/grease nipple comments, look in your workshop, do you have an oil gun or anything that will fit on one of these early nipples, that's why they got changed.
It took me 10 years to find anyone who stocked new oil nipples & the 112 all their stock, that I bought from them were stored in a box that was dated almost 50 years earlier.

[headdownarseup]

Chas.

It was me that was confused not you!

SD motors; fuel bowl fitted to the LEFT (as you look at it) distinctive fuel pipe fitted. Will ONLY fit one way with metal fuel pipe. (see pics below)
Any other motor (SDP,D,C,HC,AD,AC,AHC,TC,TD,THC,WD,WC,WHC,ED,EC,EHC) and all century/silver century motors with an Amal carb fitted, fuel bowl fitted to the RIGHT (as you look at it)

Read a little further back in this post to Bruce's comments that the oil nipple "might have been added at some point". My question is "added in what way"? Data does show some 102's with ONLY 1 nipple fitted which coincides with the "sub ejector" pumphousing. As for how long this specification lasted for is yet to be realised. Data at the moment is FAR TOO THINLY SPREAD OUT to draw any firm conclusions over anything.
I realise that over the passage of time THINGS BREAK! Oil nipples (whether they are the period correct parts from BS, or from another source) will obviously get replaced with an alternative part. Certain parts become obsolete, i understand this (which is why we sometimes buy "parts motors" to rob the correct parts from them) Whether or not the oil nipple on AD16381 is actually the original part or not remains to be seen.


Fuel pipes.
Quite obviously there will be a LOT of alternatives fitted here.Again, these things break/bend eventually. Pipes get replaced (for whatever reason) either by a well meaning owner or otherwise. My data shows this too. Half the trouble with this data collecting is that how you see a motor today is NOT how it would have looked all those years ago fresh from BS. I am merely trying to find out if there are any motors out there that still retain what we might recognise as "original fixtures and fittings". From this we can then start to work out an approximate date as to the changes, provided there is enough data to fill the gaps!
At the time of typing this there are currently less than 100 entries on my data sheet. Pathetic really, so you can understand my frustrations that more data is required. Hopefully in the coming weeks more data will be forthcoming. With more data, more questions can be answered.
As you know, i'm not one for collecting documentation and catalogues etc so as for a year to the plastic fuel pipes entering service i cant help you.
I am hopefull that in time the data will show this.

Cylinders.
At the time of typing this i am only aware of 1 basic type of cylinder fitted to roundblock 102's. Ignoring the fact that earlier variants have a brass core plug and any other changes to port dimensions over the years, to the best of my knowledge the position of the inlet stub remains in the same place. That is to say quite close to the bottom, whereas in the square block century's the inlet is cast around half way up the side of the block (thus allowing a little more room for turning)
Or have i misunderstood this? I have yet to see a roundblock 102 with it's inlet stub cast halfway up the block. I was under the impression that the height adjusting block was provided to get around this problem with whichever mounting or carb was used.


I remain hopeful that the more we research/look into this the more clearer it will all become.

Jon

[Charles uk]

Jon try the steering on your pre 1950 102s, when the float is on the right (crankcase side) does it restrict the amount of steering movement?

Why would the SDP & HSD be any different to the SD?

Oil nipples are a different shape to grease nipples so that people didn't put the wrong lube in the wrong location as grease guns make an obvious mess on an oil nipple.

Bridged ports need entirely new patterns & cores, I'd guess that including the SDs that there were 4 or 5 different "roundblock"102 cylinder types.

[Oyster 49]

At the time of typing this i am only aware of 1 basic type of cylinder fitted to roundblock 102's

Didnt you realise there were different configs of inlet stub? No idea when this came in. I would have thought this needs to be included in data logging?

Charles is of course the master

[Charles uk]

If you ever get into Seagull racing & can only use Seagull components you have to research which work best with each other & which model version you can rob them from!

[Adrian Dale]

Re the cylinder configuration: I believe the change to the central stub came with the WD's
My late TD..J4 (1964) still had the off centre stub but the WD..mm3 (1973) and WD..gg4 (1974) were fitted with the central stub, all be it 9 years later.
That is why with AD4331, which has a corroded cylinder, I was looking for the old style cylinder with square core plugs as a replacement.

The motors produced between 1964 and 1973 should be easily located to define precisely when the change was made.

AJ

[headdownarseup]

Every day is a learning day.Especially for me.
Once again i have been put "outclassed" by the MASTER. How big do i feel right now.....
Apologies to all for any confusion in all this.

This is precisely why i need more data. Most of what i have already covers a much earlier time period, so anything from a more modern era i have very little. As mentioned previously, data is far too thinly spread over many years worth of production. Still very early days with all this, but in time the "blanks" will hopefully get filled in.
You are absolutely right of course. Accurate details, however big or small must be logged and changes to my data collecting will be made in due course.

Once again apologies to all

Jon

[Hugz]

Bridged ports need entirely new patterns & cores, I'd guess that including the SDs that there were 4 or 5 different "roundblock"102 cylinder types.

I didn't know that. I'll have to have a look at my ED being one of the last. Was the D and C the same as AD and AC?

And the Olympia??