My poor Head!

[whigum]

I got this nice Little Forty.. all original, untouched and in good order, the tank is almost dent free.. but the head! It looks like somebody has taken a hacksaw a chopped off pieces of cooling fins to get access with a socket. Really? Poor little thing. I've been looking around for a new head, and don't see any quite the same. Perhaps I will file those fins down, and neatly round them. Is that the original spark plug?

[Nudge]

That is nasty!
Could you get them welded up?

[cobbadog]

I think the damaged was done because not of a socket but rather to get a ring spanner or open ended spanner onto the nuts.

[Gannet]

Yes, the head does look as if it has been treated very badly.
What is the rest of the engine like?
Could you tell me the model and serial number which is stamped on the crankcase.
Cheers,

Jeremy

[whigum]

Maybe it was a spanner, although I don't know if there would be clearance for anything much with those fins intact. Is that a known difficulty with this model? If I don't replace the head, I guess I will round the broken bits off and file them smooth, don't know how practical welding or brazing would be.

It's FV15425, over all good original condition. Good compression, chrome, tank.. can still see remains of the gold paint on parts. I think it's a low hours engine, probably been a backup.

[Keith.P]

I have come across this type of damage before, I think its down to only having a single ended ring spanner that fits the nuts.
They always seem to have good compression and by the damage it has been played with quite a bit.
Post a picture of the full outboard, as it doesn't look to me to be a low hours motor from what I can see anyway.

[cobbadog]

For my 2 cents worth I would clean up the fins by using a file and a bit of patience. Obviously welding can be done but the fillet can be a bit wider than the fin so will be noticeable unless you know someone who really knows what to do, how to do it and have the full understanding of what a quality restoration should look like. Other choice is to put it back together and continue to look for an undamaged head.
Make sure that you have a full set of spanners to suit the Whitworth nuts and bolts. They went out of fashion here in Australia and it was tricky to find good condition second hand spanners and sockets so I searched and bought sockets, ring spanners and combination Whitworth spanners out of India and have found them to be quite good so far, I use these a lot as I not only have a CPCL Seagull, we have 2 David Brown Cropmasters, a Grey Fergy and a 1947 8hp CD Lister stationary engine all which use Whitworth nuts n bolts.
Look forward to your progress on this rebuild.
Cheers Cobba

[tambikeboy]

I got this nice Little Forty.. all original, untouched and in good order, the tank is almost dent free.. but the head! It looks like somebody has taken a hacksaw a chopped off pieces of cooling fins to get access with a socket. Really? Poor little thing. I've been looking around for a new head, and don't see any quite the same. Perhaps I will file those fins down, and neatly round them. Is that the original spark plug?

You'd be surprised with what can be done with that head I'd even build Finns up with plastic metal then a skoot of silver paint ...

[tambikeboy]

I have similar spark plugs fitted to my fvp,s so would say that it is right I'm sure your answer will be found here a pic of full motor would be cool china...

[Gannet]

Thanks for the serial number. FV15425.
That puts it to a production date of around about August 1953.

I have collected quite a lot of information on these early 40 series engines. If you would like that to know more about them, there is lots of info on this site (see Early Series Forty F, FV,FVP, LS and LM) or you could send me a private message with your e mail address for me to respond to.
Cheers,
Jeremy

[headdownarseup]

I'm inclined to agree with Keith here.
Judging from the engine's appearance in the photos it looks to have seen a bit more action than first thought.
It's possible that a lot of the corrosion and missing chrome is from the motor just sitting on a transom for long periods of time exposed to the elements.(as a backup)
From what i can see it looks like there's some of the original lacquer still left on the head (the brownish looking goo)
From my point of view, correct fitting tools are absolutely ESSENTIAL otherwise you run the risk of this type of damage again.
As for a good replacement head, i think you'll end up looking for a "parts motor" for the required parts. There's precious few spare parts for these,(cylinder heads being one of those scarce parts) however a fairly complete engine coming up for sale in the future is a better bet. Patience is what you need and a keen eye.

Tam's right, it's surprising what can be done by a competent welder. The quality of the restoration will depend on the individual carrying out that work. (remember the 6 p's)

Best of luck with it.

Jon

[whigum]

Lots of great information there, thanks guys.

I bought this engine (along with a 60s Yamaha) from a man who told me they belonged to his father. Apparently his father had a sail boat that he never sailed, just motored about for fun. I think the Yamaha was his main engine, and the Seagull as backup.

The Yamaha had been very messed with, appeared to have been taken apart needlessly.. screwdriver pry marks under the flywheel, severely chewed screws etc etc. I'm guessing the previous owner was one of those people who likes to 'work' on things without any skill, patience or necessity

As far as the FV goes, it doesn't seem to have been dismantled much, other than the head. I have looked over the nuts and bolts etc, and don't see any chewing present. Lower unit looks to have had the screws removed, but not destroyed. Also, tarting up with a wire wheel prior to sale appears evident.

I may just have a go at repairing the head myself. I do have some experience in restorations, mostly on furniture, but we shall see. I have a vague idea of taking a cast aluminum saucepan, snapping bits off in a similar fashion to the head, then attempting to repair it by brazing. If the pan goes ok, I will try my hand at the head. Otherwise, careful patient filing to disguise the damage it shall be.

And here are a few of photos for you all, if anyone is interested to see more, I have others:

[Charles uk]

These heads are very difficult to find as replacements (ask Gannet).

Damage yours, & all you'll have is a load of spares for your next little model 40.

Try brazing aluminium by all means, & try cleaning up the joint afterwards with a dremel, then leave the finished job outside in the weather for a couple of days.

A good aluminium TIG welder will do a much better job in 10 minutes, that will be far easier to clean up afterwards & won't look like a bodged up repair on the hardest to find component of your motor.

The "Original lacquer" is nothing that Seagull applied, but a recommendation from the owners handbook that giving your new Seagull a coat of yacht varnish might assist in it's protection from salt water & weathering.

John Williams has a tool kit for sale with a 3/8" socket that will fit these head nuts & not damage the cylinder head fins.

[Keith.P]

It looks to be a late example and yes it all looks correct for that era.
Its around about the condition you find them in, being that it has been lacquered, an advisory by seagull to stop the rust, this has helped the chrome work and as it has the better unpainted aluminium parts they stand up much better over the years.
As for the all original, untouched and in good order, Not totally untouched, looking at the head and other common wear points, dinks and knocks, its had a life.
The long range tank was an upgrade option, but probably standard on later motors.

[headdownarseup]

I concur
Wear marks on the drive tube with a little worn chrome. Have a look at the small "cotton reel" mounts within the transom mount for signs of FLAT SPOTS. If they're mostly round then chances are that they're from a low hours motor. BUT if they've got noticeable "flat spots" it's a sure sign the motor has had a bit more of a chequered life than you first imagined.

ALSO (with my keen little eye) a quick glance over the flywheel cover shows some pitting.
I could go on and on but i wont.

Still a nice little motor all the same.
Weld the head i think is the general consensus with this.

Jon